Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On
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Basic KVM install would be with virt-manager for management and being a fedora noob it took me much longer than I would have liked to figure out what I needed and how to install it. And Fedora's graphical installer wouldn't work without command line options.
Xenserver or Xcp-ng for the hypervisor was much quicker and straight-forward to install. Xencenter is super-easy to get going with - if you are already set up with Windows.
So for ease of setup xenserver or xcp-ng wins easily in my opinion. I also think that for ease of basic administration xencenter wins easily - if you have a windows os to run it on.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@StuartJordan said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Yep don't see any issue with using XO..it has a clean interface.
even installing XO after XCP-NG is quicker than setting up Hyper-V outside of a domain.Agreed. Not quite as easy as a basic KVM install IMHO, but easier than a more complex KVM install. And both are way easier than Hyper-V or VMware ESXi once you have to figure out licensing.
By Basic KVM install, @scottalanmiller means literally just installing Fedora with the Virtualization Server role checkbox enabled and nothing beyond that at all. Maybe Cockpit option as well.
But take nothing else as being included with a "basic KVM install".
Correct, only the stuff you need to get up and running, make your VMs, and go to production. There was some talk of cloning and stuff, but honestly, lots of SMBs don't use that either.
I'm not sure what all this extra stuff is people assume is needed in the SMB, and we've beaten the horse that backups are not potentially to be included here as for most people, they aren't applicable.
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Don't you need to install an additional cockpit package to manage KVM? I'm legitimately asking because I don't know. Not trying to be snarky lol
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@bnrstnr said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Don't you need to install an additional cockpit package to manage KVM?
Yes, one package. But not Cockpit itself.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only since Fedora 27 or 28. Does it include all the correct modules by default when KVM server (or whatever the line says) is chosen during the setup?
As I never install that way, I have no idea. But that is a personal choice and unrelated to the simlicity of the KVM setup.
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Cockpit is there by default, no effort there.
Only since Fedora 27 or 28. Does it include all the correct modules by default when KVM server (or whatever the line says) is chosen during the setup?
Not in 28 it needed one install after boot. Not sure about 29.
This is the selection you are thinking of..
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@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@bnrstnr said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Would you still use it without Xen Orchestra?
I asked because I feel Xen Orchestra has a big part in making an individual to use XenServer/XCP-ng.I would definitely not use XCP-ng without XO. I would probably use Hyper-V and Veeam otherwise.
I want to try KVM, but I don't have time to figure out the backup stuff right now. Maybe it's time I switch my home lab over to KVM.
Before all the changes with XenServer, I had no problem using XenServer with XenCenter for what I needed. I actually like how quick I got use to using it and the cli compare to my first experience with Hyper-V and KVM.
Backups are always hot-topic with hypervisors. I don't really have issue using Agentless or agent-based backups.
I think tossing backups into this conversation at all is a red herring to use Scott's term. It has nothing to do with the questions at hand. In the case of XCP-NG you need XO/XOA, in the case of KVM - you need??? in case of VMWare, you need (let's say Veeam - or anything else you buy/Open Source), in the case of Hyper-V - you could use Windows backup - (but gaud, why?, so you're back to the same as VMWare mostly).
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@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
My post was strictly about backups. Can you do backups using only XAPI? or only Virsh?
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
My post was strictly about backups. Can you do backups using only XAPI? or only Virsh?
Yes.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
My post was strictly about backups. Can you do backups using only XAPI? or only Virsh?
Yes.
No. You make snapshots and such. but then have to export and move and copy to make them a "backup"
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
My post was strictly about backups. Can you do backups using only XAPI? or only Virsh?
Yes.
No. You make snapshots and such. but then have to export and move and copy to make them a "backup"
Yes, you are correct, this I didn't mention.
But this is still doable through the command line.
Edit: but almost no one is really doing, this. At least none that I can find.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@bnrstnr said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Would you still use it without Xen Orchestra?
I asked because I feel Xen Orchestra has a big part in making an individual to use XenServer/XCP-ng.I would definitely not use XCP-ng without XO. I would probably use Hyper-V and Veeam otherwise.
I want to try KVM, but I don't have time to figure out the backup stuff right now. Maybe it's time I switch my home lab over to KVM.
Before all the changes with XenServer, I had no problem using XenServer with XenCenter for what I needed. I actually like how quick I got use to using it and the cli compare to my first experience with Hyper-V and KVM.
Backups are always hot-topic with hypervisors. I don't really have issue using Agentless or agent-based backups.
I think tossing backups into this conversation at all is a red herring to use Scott's term. It has nothing to do with the questions at hand. In the case of XCP-NG you need XO/XOA, in the case of KVM - you need???
KVM actually can do backups, even with rudimentary CBT, with only the built in command line tools. But it's a pain. But it is there.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
My post was strictly about backups. Can you do backups using only XAPI? or only Virsh?
Yes.
No. You make snapshots and such. but then have to export and move and copy to make them a "backup"
Yes, you are correct, this I didn't mention.
But this is still doable through the command line.
That is not what was asked or stated. You are adding.
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Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Dashrender but you don't need XO at all, it's just a really great solution to have in addition.
Sure - and you don't need any of the backup solutions for the rest either. Not sure where you're going?
Think of Virsh (the CLI as XAPI) or Virt Manager like XenCenter. These are things you need to either use or learn to manage the hypervisor.
So stating "I need something additional" is the red herring as it makes it sound like something entirely separate from the tools and management approach is somehow not needed with KVM.
When it still is there. It's just automatically installed.
My post was strictly about backups. Can you do backups using only XAPI? or only Virsh?
Yes.
No. You make snapshots and such. but then have to export and move and copy to make them a "backup"
Yes, you are correct, this I didn't mention.
But this is still doable through the command line.
That is not what was asked or stated. You are adding.
So yes - backups can be done - but it's a huge PITA using those native tools.
got it. -
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
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@Dashrender said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Technically you can backup to a remote using XAPI and export that without touching anything else besides the command line. I was doing it via script before I found XO some time ago and while it worked. It was less than an ideal approach for the organization.
When snapping to a remote location How bad did that hit the disk? I'm guessing pretty bad.
Why would you guess that it would be bad?
