I grabbed an Android TV box...
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@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
It's terrible IP from a gaming perspective.
I disagree with that, as I like some of their IP.
This is the, I don't like it so therefore it isn't art, argument. People have individual tastes and while I don't like some of Nintendo's IPs I can understand why people do.
I don't drink beer and think it tastes like vomit, so all beer is trash and breweries shouldn't exist.
Correct, but @scottalanmiller likes to make blanket statements that insinuate what he said is true for everyone.
You aren't really a candidate for liking the IP, though. Anyone our age likes it from nostalgia (potentially.) Find people who like Nintendo IPI that didn't grow up with it.
You're talking about two completely different points in time though. These kids aren't more objective because they didn't grow up with it. They are probably going to say the graphics suck and there are no loot boxes.
You're also wrong about Zelda
I"m talking about the games right now, today.
The switch is selling like crazy. Everyone loved the new Zelda. Mario is eternal. Idk man
Are you missing the "except for nostalgia" pieces? You aren't understanding what I'm saying given your responses. It's not that it won't sell, it's that it is selling to people who grew up with it.
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@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
It's terrible IP from a gaming perspective.
I disagree with that, as I like some of their IP.
This is the, I don't like it so therefore it isn't art, argument. People have individual tastes and while I don't like some of Nintendo's IPs I can understand why people do.
I don't drink beer and think it tastes like vomit, so all beer is trash and breweries shouldn't exist.
Correct, but @scottalanmiller likes to make blanket statements that insinuate what he said is true for everyone.
You aren't really a candidate for liking the IP, though. Anyone our age likes it from nostalgia (potentially.) Find people who like Nintendo IPI that didn't grow up with it.
You're talking about two completely different points in time though. These kids aren't more objective because they didn't grow up with it. They are probably going to say the graphics suck and there are no loot boxes.
You're also wrong about Zelda
I"m talking about the games right now, today.
Which are selling like crazy to both new and old gamers alike. I know kid's who's parents don't game that asked for a switch with the new Mario and Zelda for Christmas. Is there marketing involved? Sure but that doesn't mean that these people aren't gamers or hate games.
Asking for and liking aren''t the same things. One is driven by marketing alone. Just because they are bombarded with marketing for them can make them buy it. But then they discover what it is. That's when you start to discover things.
If you went by sales, Ponzi schemes are a good deal.
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@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
It's terrible IP from a gaming perspective.
I disagree with that, as I like some of their IP.
This is the, I don't like it so therefore it isn't art, argument. People have individual tastes and while I don't like some of Nintendo's IPs I can understand why people do.
I don't drink beer and think it tastes like vomit, so all beer is trash and breweries shouldn't exist.
Correct, but @scottalanmiller likes to make blanket statements that insinuate what he said is true for everyone.
You aren't really a candidate for liking the IP, though. Anyone our age likes it from nostalgia (potentially.) Find people who like Nintendo IPI that didn't grow up with it.
You're talking about two completely different points in time though. These kids aren't more objective because they didn't grow up with it. They are probably going to say the graphics suck and there are no loot boxes.
You're also wrong about Zelda
I"m talking about the games right now, today.
The switch is selling like crazy. Everyone loved the new Zelda. Mario is eternal. Idk man
Are you missing the "except for nostalgia" pieces? You aren't understanding what I'm saying given your responses. It's not that it won't sell, it's that it is selling to people who grew up with it.
Where are you getting that information from though?
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Try this as an example...
Find me a vast number of kids who have never played Zelda before, but are serious gamers in general (decent amount of gaming experience in different genres) who come from older systems like PC, PS4 and XBOX One... who then try Zelda and see what they think of it. Experiences, un-exposed, non-nostalgic gamers... that's the opinion that I would like to see.
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@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
It's terrible IP from a gaming perspective.
I disagree with that, as I like some of their IP.
This is the, I don't like it so therefore it isn't art, argument. People have individual tastes and while I don't like some of Nintendo's IPs I can understand why people do.
I don't drink beer and think it tastes like vomit, so all beer is trash and breweries shouldn't exist.
Correct, but @scottalanmiller likes to make blanket statements that insinuate what he said is true for everyone.
You aren't really a candidate for liking the IP, though. Anyone our age likes it from nostalgia (potentially.) Find people who like Nintendo IPI that didn't grow up with it.
You're talking about two completely different points in time though. These kids aren't more objective because they didn't grow up with it. They are probably going to say the graphics suck and there are no loot boxes.
You're also wrong about Zelda
I"m talking about the games right now, today.
The switch is selling like crazy. Everyone loved the new Zelda. Mario is eternal. Idk man
Are you missing the "except for nostalgia" pieces? You aren't understanding what I'm saying given your responses. It's not that it won't sell, it's that it is selling to people who grew up with it.
Where are you getting that information from though?
I didn't mean to say that that was the only people buying it. I'm saying that I believe that that is the driving factor. Your response didn't make any sense given what I was saying - which is that people ARE buying it, but not because it's good gaming.
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Obviously, LOADS of people will buy anything that is advertised. That factor will never change. Advertise anything enough, people will buy it. They might not be happy afterwards (like the Wii and WiiU) but they will sell in huge numbers up front. Kids and adults alike are totally subject to this.
The thing there is that big advertising is crazy expensive, so that alone normally doesn't create profits.
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@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@irj said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@irj said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@irj said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@fredtx said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller Just like the Nintendo Switch. It didn’t even come with a game. Also, for an extra controller it’s like $80 after tax. My daughter’s uncle got it for her for Christmas. I’m betting she’ll play with the Android box more as soon as it comes in.
Oh yeah. Everything since the N64 has been garbage based completely around gimmicks. Wii and WiiU were so awful. The Switch is just the guts of an Nvidia Shield in a lower quality container at double the price.
And the Shield is already quite old.
Nintendo is lucky their name still carries so much weight. If any of those systems were designed by any company other than Nintendo, they'd be another Sega Saturn or jaguar 64.
Nintendo just has so many fanboys and they are quite good with making fun games. Their niche is really software not hardware anymore.
It is always about the software, even for the iPhone, Pixel phones, xbox, Playstation, etc. It is the software that really drives it. You can have the best hardware but if you have crappy software to put on it, the hardware is then perceived to be crappy as well.
Yeah that is true. I meant to say games. Of course nostalgia has a lot to do with their success. I wonder how much the same games would make without Mario branding.
My guess is that they'd make nothing at all. If it wasn't for the branding, Nintendo makes poorly rates $.49 Steam sale games.
I think they make some fun newer games, but a lot of them aren't original or have good graphics. The gameplay is fun and can be addictive in some games. There are others like Mario sunshine or Luigi's mansion and just say wtf. Those games are really popular for whatever reason though.
Same reason that all those cheezy apps advertise on television. The casual gamer market has exploded. Nintendo is THE system for people who don't like games. They make the kind of stuff that celebrities advertise on annoying push ads. Candy Crush and stuff like that.
To say that Nintendo Console owners, I have owned almost every Nintendo console just to be transparent, are not "TRUE" gamers is a really snobbish thing to say. Each Nintendo console has given me hours of gaming fun. Just because they are not the "true games" you like doesn't mean anything. To say that Nintendo caters to a different type of gamer, would be an accurate statement.
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@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
It's terrible IP from a gaming perspective.
I disagree with that, as I like some of their IP.
This is the, I don't like it so therefore it isn't art, argument. People have individual tastes and while I don't like some of Nintendo's IPs I can understand why people do.
I don't drink beer and think it tastes like vomit, so all beer is trash and breweries shouldn't exist.
Correct, but @scottalanmiller likes to make blanket statements that insinuate what he said is true for everyone.
You aren't really a candidate for liking the IP, though. Anyone our age likes it from nostalgia (potentially.) Find people who like Nintendo IPI that didn't grow up with it.
You're talking about two completely different points in time though. These kids aren't more objective because they didn't grow up with it. They are probably going to say the graphics suck and there are no loot boxes.
You're also wrong about Zelda
I"m talking about the games right now, today.
Which are selling like crazy to both new and old gamers alike. I know kid's who's parents don't game that asked for a switch with the new Mario and Zelda for Christmas. Is there marketing involved? Sure but that doesn't mean that these people aren't gamers or hate games.
Asking for and liking aren''t the same things. One is driven by marketing alone. Just because they are bombarded with marketing for them can make them buy it. But then they discover what it is. That's when you start to discover things.
If you went by sales, Ponzi schemes are a good deal.
I've given you a personal example. It would be very difficult to find anyone outside of very young children who has not seen or played a Zelda or Mario game there has been a major one for the past several decades. The example I have the kids do seem to enjoy both the new ones.
Your basically reiterating your argument, this is art I don't like so obviously only people that aren't serious about their art or even hate art will like this. It didn't give as everyone has different tastes in entertainment. I for one enjoy simulation games but most people would find those unenjoyable.
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@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@wirestyle22 said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@coliver said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
It's terrible IP from a gaming perspective.
I disagree with that, as I like some of their IP.
This is the, I don't like it so therefore it isn't art, argument. People have individual tastes and while I don't like some of Nintendo's IPs I can understand why people do.
I don't drink beer and think it tastes like vomit, so all beer is trash and breweries shouldn't exist.
Correct, but @scottalanmiller likes to make blanket statements that insinuate what he said is true for everyone.
You aren't really a candidate for liking the IP, though. Anyone our age likes it from nostalgia (potentially.) Find people who like Nintendo IPI that didn't grow up with it.
You're talking about two completely different points in time though. These kids aren't more objective because they didn't grow up with it. They are probably going to say the graphics suck and there are no loot boxes.
You're also wrong about Zelda
I"m talking about the games right now, today.
Which are selling like crazy to both new and old gamers alike. I know kid's who's parents don't game that asked for a switch with the new Mario and Zelda for Christmas. Is there marketing involved? Sure but that doesn't mean that these people aren't gamers or hate games.
Asking for and liking aren''t the same things. One is driven by marketing alone. Just because they are bombarded with marketing for them can make them buy it. But then they discover what it is. That's when you start to discover things.
If you went by sales, Ponzi schemes are a good deal.
I've given you a personal example. It would be very difficult to find anyone outside of very young children who has not seen or played a Zelda or Mario game there has been a major one for the past several decades. The example I have the kids do seem to enjoy both the new ones.
Your basically reiterating your argument, this is art I don't like so obviously only people that aren't serious about their art or even hate art will like this. It didn't give as everyone has different tastes in entertainment. I for one enjoy simulation games but most people would find those unenjoyable.
No, my argument is that I've basically never heard of anyone liking it outside of liking it because of nostalgia. Granted, it is a limited set size, but the observation is basically ubiquitous - those that say that they like it almost always played it and have nostalgic feelings for it, and those that don't can't figure out what's good about it. Do exceptions exist, certainly. But are they rare? From what I've seen, they are extremely rare.
And the counter argument is always to demonstrate my point - by having someone who feels nostalgic about the games point out that they like the games, which is my point so doesn't contradict it at all.
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@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@irj said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@irj said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@irj said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@fredtx said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller Just like the Nintendo Switch. It didn’t even come with a game. Also, for an extra controller it’s like $80 after tax. My daughter’s uncle got it for her for Christmas. I’m betting she’ll play with the Android box more as soon as it comes in.
Oh yeah. Everything since the N64 has been garbage based completely around gimmicks. Wii and WiiU were so awful. The Switch is just the guts of an Nvidia Shield in a lower quality container at double the price.
And the Shield is already quite old.
Nintendo is lucky their name still carries so much weight. If any of those systems were designed by any company other than Nintendo, they'd be another Sega Saturn or jaguar 64.
Nintendo just has so many fanboys and they are quite good with making fun games. Their niche is really software not hardware anymore.
It is always about the software, even for the iPhone, Pixel phones, xbox, Playstation, etc. It is the software that really drives it. You can have the best hardware but if you have crappy software to put on it, the hardware is then perceived to be crappy as well.
Yeah that is true. I meant to say games. Of course nostalgia has a lot to do with their success. I wonder how much the same games would make without Mario branding.
My guess is that they'd make nothing at all. If it wasn't for the branding, Nintendo makes poorly rates $.49 Steam sale games.
I think they make some fun newer games, but a lot of them aren't original or have good graphics. The gameplay is fun and can be addictive in some games. There are others like Mario sunshine or Luigi's mansion and just say wtf. Those games are really popular for whatever reason though.
Same reason that all those cheezy apps advertise on television. The casual gamer market has exploded. Nintendo is THE system for people who don't like games. They make the kind of stuff that celebrities advertise on annoying push ads. Candy Crush and stuff like that.
To say that Nintendo Console owners, I have owned almost every Nintendo console just to be transparent, are not "TRUE" gamers is a really snobbish thing to say. Each Nintendo console has given me hours of gaming fun. Just because they are not the "true games" you like doesn't mean anything. To say that Nintendo caters to a different type of gamer, would be an accurate statement.
They cater to casual gamers. That's their thing. It's not me calling that segment not "true gamers", that's the excepted term used for casual gaming. You get the same reactions for people who like hidden object games (I actually like and play these), solataire games, the games that come with the OS, Candy Crush, etc. Those are all part of the same casual gaming family. There isn't any term for the two camps except for "casual gamers" and "true gamers", for better or for worse. If you want to come up with better industry terms, feel free. But don't call me a snob for using the industry terms. And I fall on both sides, too. But I would never consider playing minesweeper the same as playing Skyrim, even though I play both. It doesn't make me not a gamer, but I'm not considered to be doing a "gaming activity" when playing minecraft.
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@scottalanmiller a casual gamer is someone like my mother who plays games on her iPhone. If I sat her down in front of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild she would be way in over her head. It would not be a casual experience for her or any true casual gamer. It is the game itself that will determine if it is a casual game, not the console. To say that all Nintendo consoles are for casual gamers would be an over generalization. There are casual games for each console. The fact that Nintendo does causal games on a console the best shouldn't detract from the other great non-causal games it has. In Engadget's list of best games of 2017, two Nintendo games made the list of ten, with many mentioned as runner-ups. https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/28/the-best-games-of-2017/
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@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller a casual gamer is someone like my mother who plays games on her iPhone. If I sat her down in front of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild she would be way in over her head. It would not be a casual experience for her or any true casual gamer. It is the game itself that will determine if it is a casual game, not the console. To say that all Nintendo consoles are for casual gamers would be an over generalization. There are casual games for each console. The fact that Nintendo does causal games on a console the best shouldn't detract from the other great non-causal games it has. In Engadget's list of best games of 2017, two Nintendo games made the list of ten, with many mentioned as runner-ups. https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/28/the-best-games-of-2017/
The Wii and Wii U were definitely geared toward casual gamers.
I might even go so far as to say their portable game units were geared toward casual gamers - but then the Switch would break that - it's for both. -
@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller a casual gamer is someone like my mother who plays games on her iPhone. If I sat her down in front of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild she would be way in over her head. It would not be a casual experience for her or any true casual gamer. It is the game itself that will determine if it is a casual game, not the console. To say that all Nintendo consoles are for casual gamers would be an over generalization. There are casual games for each console. The fact that Nintendo does causal games on a console the best shouldn't detract from the other great non-causal games it has. In Engadget's list of best games of 2017, two Nintendo games made the list of ten, with many mentioned as runner-ups. https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/28/the-best-games-of-2017/
I’ve played some of the later Zelda games and find them more casual, rather than less, than many phone games. There has been a strong push to get them on phones, in fact.
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@dashrender said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller a casual gamer is someone like my mother who plays games on her iPhone. If I sat her down in front of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild she would be way in over her head. It would not be a casual experience for her or any true casual gamer. It is the game itself that will determine if it is a casual game, not the console. To say that all Nintendo consoles are for casual gamers would be an over generalization. There are casual games for each console. The fact that Nintendo does causal games on a console the best shouldn't detract from the other great non-causal games it has. In Engadget's list of best games of 2017, two Nintendo games made the list of ten, with many mentioned as runner-ups. https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/28/the-best-games-of-2017/
The Wii and Wii U were definitely geared toward casual gamers.
I might even go so far as to say their portable game units were geared toward casual gamers - but then the Switch would break that - it's for both.Both what? Casual and casual portable? Thts true. But it’s only the power and hardware of a phone. But without the build quality and game selection. So it’s like a casual phone system.
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@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller a casual gamer is someone like my mother who plays games on her iPhone. If I sat her down in front of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild she would be way in over her head. It would not be a casual experience for her or any true casual gamer. It is the game itself that will determine if it is a casual game, not the console. To say that all Nintendo consoles are for casual gamers would be an over generalization. There are casual games for each console. The fact that Nintendo does causal games on a console the best shouldn't detract from the other great non-causal games it has. In Engadget's list of best games of 2017, two Nintendo games made the list of ten, with many mentioned as runner-ups. https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/28/the-best-games-of-2017/
I’ve played some of the later Zelda games and find them more casual, rather than less, than many phone games. There has been a strong push to get them on phones, in fact.
You have found them. Not me or many, many, others. Your opinion is not a fact.
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@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller a casual gamer is someone like my mother who plays games on her iPhone. If I sat her down in front of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild she would be way in over her head. It would not be a casual experience for her or any true casual gamer. It is the game itself that will determine if it is a casual game, not the console. To say that all Nintendo consoles are for casual gamers would be an over generalization. There are casual games for each console. The fact that Nintendo does causal games on a console the best shouldn't detract from the other great non-causal games it has. In Engadget's list of best games of 2017, two Nintendo games made the list of ten, with many mentioned as runner-ups. https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/28/the-best-games-of-2017/
I’ve played some of the later Zelda games and find them more casual, rather than less, than many phone games. There has been a strong push to get them on phones, in fact.
You have found them. Not me or many, many, others. Your opinion is not a fact.
You can’t possibly claim Zelda games are not super casual. Or you can’t think phone games are casual.
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@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller a casual gamer is someone like my mother who plays games on her iPhone. If I sat her down in front of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild she would be way in over her head. It would not be a casual experience for her or any true casual gamer. It is the game itself that will determine if it is a casual game, not the console. To say that all Nintendo consoles are for casual gamers would be an over generalization. There are casual games for each console. The fact that Nintendo does causal games on a console the best shouldn't detract from the other great non-causal games it has. In Engadget's list of best games of 2017, two Nintendo games made the list of ten, with many mentioned as runner-ups. https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/28/the-best-games-of-2017/
I’ve played some of the later Zelda games and find them more casual, rather than less, than many phone games. There has been a strong push to get them on phones, in fact.
You have found them. Not me or many, many, others. Your opinion is not a fact.
You can’t possibly claim Zelda games are not super casual. Or you can’t think phone games are casual.
I have not had a Nintendo console for the games after Ocarina of Time until now. So I am not sure on the games in between. Ocarina of Time (N64) and Breath of the Wild (Switch), are not casual games.
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My point is that zelda is more casual than a lot of What phones have today. If you want to consider both casual, fine. If neither, okay. But if Zelda isn’t casual, what is? Short of match 3 games, what’s more casual?
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@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@jaredbusch said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@penguinwrangler said in I grabbed an Android TV box...:
@scottalanmiller a casual gamer is someone like my mother who plays games on her iPhone. If I sat her down in front of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild she would be way in over her head. It would not be a casual experience for her or any true casual gamer. It is the game itself that will determine if it is a casual game, not the console. To say that all Nintendo consoles are for casual gamers would be an over generalization. There are casual games for each console. The fact that Nintendo does causal games on a console the best shouldn't detract from the other great non-causal games it has. In Engadget's list of best games of 2017, two Nintendo games made the list of ten, with many mentioned as runner-ups. https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/28/the-best-games-of-2017/
I’ve played some of the later Zelda games and find them more casual, rather than less, than many phone games. There has been a strong push to get them on phones, in fact.
You have found them. Not me or many, many, others. Your opinion is not a fact.
You can’t possibly claim Zelda games are not super casual. Or you can’t think phone games are casual.
I have not had a Nintendo console for the games after Ocarina of Time until now. So I am not sure on the games in between. Ocarina of Time (N64) and Breath of the Wild (Switch), are not casual games.
Twilight Princess, Wind Waker HD (WiiU) are crazy casual.
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SNES era was different. But I’ve tried most Zelda since then and own every one, and they are always (except maybe this very latest) far more simple and casual than anything else I’ve seen in their genres - but with graphics akin to more serious games which is what I think makes them popular. Casual to play but give that “feel” of a more serious game.
