Unsolved Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue
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@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
Sadly this didn't appear to be an issue on our previous file server 2008 r2, but has surfaced on our new file server 2016.
It was there, maybe your file structure was such that you didn't notice. The bug has been in Finder for at least eight years, I was dealing with it in 2012 and it was well known by that time. It is only noticeable when the systems are large enough in file names.
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@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
So looking for any sort of resolution, be it make everyone start mounting via CIFS and or disabling the Icon Preview as reported in a few topics I've seen.
It's a Finder Bug, there is no "fix" unless you provide the incorrect data Finder is waiting on or you don't use Finder.
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@scottalanmiller said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
So looking for any sort of resolution, be it make everyone start mounting via CIFS and or disabling the Icon Preview as reported in a few topics I've seen.
It's a Finder Bug, there is no "fix" unless you provide the incorrect data Finder is waiting on or you don't use Finder.
Mounting via CIFS in the few testers I've used so far today seems to address it.
I need further details. I can agree it is this "Finder bug" but replacing Finder and getting the entire organization to change to use something else simply isn't feasible.
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@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@scottalanmiller said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
So looking for any sort of resolution, be it make everyone start mounting via CIFS and or disabling the Icon Preview as reported in a few topics I've seen.
It's a Finder Bug, there is no "fix" unless you provide the incorrect data Finder is waiting on or you don't use Finder.
Mounting via CIFS in the few testers I've used so far today seems to address it.
So CIFS from the same WIndows 2016 boxes?
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@scottalanmiller said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@scottalanmiller said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
So looking for any sort of resolution, be it make everyone start mounting via CIFS and or disabling the Icon Preview as reported in a few topics I've seen.
It's a Finder Bug, there is no "fix" unless you provide the incorrect data Finder is waiting on or you don't use Finder.
Mounting via CIFS in the few testers I've used so far today seems to address it.
So CIFS from the same WIndows 2016 boxes?
On the Apple devices we normally would have the user connect to the windows server like smb://servername.domain.com and this caused a ton of files to get mounted as read only.
Changing it to cifs://servername.domain.com greatly reduces the number of files that get the "read only" state (like just what the user is using).
Which seems to at least address the locking of everyones files on the server. (still testing)
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@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@scottalanmiller said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@scottalanmiller said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
So looking for any sort of resolution, be it make everyone start mounting via CIFS and or disabling the Icon Preview as reported in a few topics I've seen.
It's a Finder Bug, there is no "fix" unless you provide the incorrect data Finder is waiting on or you don't use Finder.
Mounting via CIFS in the few testers I've used so far today seems to address it.
So CIFS from the same WIndows 2016 boxes?
On the Apple devices we normally would have the user connect to the windows server like smb://servername.domain.com and this caused a ton of files to get mounted as read only.
Changing it to cifs://servername.domain.com greatly reduces the number of files that get the "read only" state (like just what the user is using).
Which seems to at least address the locking of everyones files on the server. (still testing)
Interesting, so it is a different driver on the Apple side. CIFS is just a label for SMB at the protocol level. CIFS is just one specific old SMB version.
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@scottalanmiller said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@scottalanmiller said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@scottalanmiller said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
So looking for any sort of resolution, be it make everyone start mounting via CIFS and or disabling the Icon Preview as reported in a few topics I've seen.
It's a Finder Bug, there is no "fix" unless you provide the incorrect data Finder is waiting on or you don't use Finder.
Mounting via CIFS in the few testers I've used so far today seems to address it.
So CIFS from the same WIndows 2016 boxes?
On the Apple devices we normally would have the user connect to the windows server like smb://servername.domain.com and this caused a ton of files to get mounted as read only.
Changing it to cifs://servername.domain.com greatly reduces the number of files that get the "read only" state (like just what the user is using).
Which seems to at least address the locking of everyones files on the server. (still testing)
Interesting, so it is a different driver on the Apple side. CIFS is just a label for SMB at the protocol level. CIFS is just one specific old SMB version.
Yeah the number of files that get mounted (according to windows file manager - open sessions) is maybe 1/1000th the number of sessions. Where as doing a Finder query using SMB would literally lock every file it could while it searched.
To address the issue I had to go and kill those sessions via File Manager - open sessions, and then people could move or delete etc.
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@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
I'm still testing but has anyone else seen this behavior with Apple clients and Windows File Servers?
Yepp, we see it here too.
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Yeah this definitely seems to fix the issue, the number of connections to my server has dropped by a lot with just a handful of people I've tested with.
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Yeah, this has been an issue since Server 2012 R2 on SMB and Apple and reason why Microsoft Office on Macs marks the files as being opened even though they are not.
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I'm curious now if this is something in High Sierra or just something that has occurred because of the server update.
Need to take a look at the people who I have testing this and see.
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Nope not specifically something with the OS as far as I can see, have people on both High Sierra and Sierra. . .
I guess it's something inside of 2016 and the way it responds to Finder queries. . .
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@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
I'm curious now if this is something in High Sierra or just something that has occurred because of the server update.
Need to take a look at the people who I have testing this and see.
It's from almost a decade ago. It's ancient. Like I said, it was old and well known in 2012.
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@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
Nope not specifically something with the OS as far as I can see, have people on both High Sierra and Sierra. . .
I guess it's something inside of 2016 and the way it responds to Finder queries. . .
No, this is a very well known Mac bug. It is not a 2016 issue, we had it with Windows, Samba, and all third party SMB servers for a very long time until they wrote specific work arounds to the bug. It's not new. In 2012 we were able to show that it was a bug in Finder, you can demonstrate what it does if you spend enough time on it. You can recreate it with multiple protocols across different OSes and server platforms.
Changing from SMB to CIFS is not changing the protocol used, but change the driver used on the Mac side and is affecting, but I bet not removing, the underlying issue.
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@scottalanmiller that might be, but the issue didn't occur (at least in my experience here) until a iscsi migration to from Server 2008 R2 Server 2016.
I'm not disagreeing that the issue could be one that apple has never fixed. I'm simply looking for a solution, which it appears rather than mounting as smb but as cifs addresses this.
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Isn’t smb version v1 disable on server 2016 compare to 2008 r2?
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@black3dynamite said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
Isn’t smb version v1 disable on server 2016 compare to 2008 r2?
I don't believe it is, I have to check.
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So still doing digging on this to try and pinpoint the issue a bit more as CIFS is a meh approach to this. . .
It seems that Apples' SMBX protocol does some weird things:
Opportunistic locking sounds a lot like "I'm taking these files because maybe you might need them, but who honestly knows.
That there is a big freaking issue, who would ever want a client system to lock an entire network share?!
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@dustinb3403 This doesn't even sound like a bug, more like intentional crippling. Is there some proprietary Apple file sharing protocol they want people using?
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@dustinb3403 said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
@black3dynamite said in Annoying Apple Issue - SMB - Finder issue:
Isn’t smb version v1 disable on server 2016 compare to 2008 r2?
I don't believe it is, I have to check.
It is
