Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Agentless isn't the factor I'm sticking on. It's how do I create a complete system, agentless, agent based (some new magic), management interface scaling, migration etc.
Complete system includes everything. SO many things that aren't virtualization. There is no end to what we'd have to consider under that scope.
You are now mixing the guest OS and the virtual hardware it runs on. I'm specifically discussing a complete hypervisor stack.
What is the:
- Hypervisor?
- Backup method
- Restoration procedure
Among about a million other talking points, that while small things, still need to be understood.
Because to @scottalanmiller backups have nothing to do with the hypervisor.
Correct, they are their own thing. Just like the operating systems you run on top of the hypervisor are their own thing. Like everything in IT, they work together, but the switches, routers, backups,, are their own things, not "parts of the hypervisors."
Unless you have Scale that includes it.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Agentless isn't the factor I'm sticking on. It's how do I create a complete system, agentless, agent based (some new magic), management interface scaling, migration etc.
Complete system includes everything. SO many things that aren't virtualization. There is no end to what we'd have to consider under that scope.
You are now mixing the guest OS and the virtual hardware it runs on. I'm specifically discussing a complete hypervisor stack.
What is the:
- Hypervisor?
- Backup method
- Restoration procedure
Among about a million other talking points, that while small things, still need to be understood.
I backup and restore workloads, not platforms. I think confusing the infrastructure to run workloads on with the workloads themselves actually undermines that planning process.
Especially in a world where you might not be all on one hypervisor. What happens if you have to include cloud, physical, colo, and on premises hypervisors all in a single strategy?
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@Obsolesce said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
If Cockpit had functionality "export a backup to <insert remote>" right there I wouldn't be as I have been. Because, you need something additional.
Who else has that command?
Hyper-V Server does have WSB semi built in, it's an additional feature you need to enable. After that it's simple commands or remotely via the GUI.
But why export backup? Backups should already be off the host...
Well, the exporting is what turns a snapshot into a backup, in a sense.
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What does backing up a workload mean to you?
I backup everything so I can restore to whatever, whenever. That is my workload. Whatever gets me back to operational, hypervisor excluded.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
What does backing up a workload mean to you?
I backup everything so I can restore to whatever, whenever. That is my workload. Whatever gets me back to operational, hypervisor excluded.
Workload is "what is presented to the end user."
With your strategy, let's say your hardware fails, your hypervisor is gone, company decides to restore to a cloud location. What's your restore strategy?
When using agents, this is normally really easy. It's the same as any other restore. For those doing agentless, there are options, but it becomes less obvious.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
What does backing up a workload mean to you?
I backup everything so I can restore to whatever, whenever. That is my workload. Whatever gets me back to operational, hypervisor excluded.
Workload is "what is presented to the end user."
With your strategy, let's say your hardware fails, your hypervisor is gone, company decides to restore to a cloud location. What's your restore strategy?
When using agents, this is normally really easy. It's the same as any other restore. For those doing agentless, there are options, but it becomes less obvious.
From the user perspective, they don't care what is presented to them, so long as they can work.
So your stance is "the user should see nothing different". . . So is mine.
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And like with any hypervisor any cloud provider has options to migrate to them.
Migration away on the other hand is a different conversation.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
What does backing up a workload mean to you?
I backup everything so I can restore to whatever, whenever. That is my workload. Whatever gets me back to operational, hypervisor excluded.
It means he is changing the scope to suit his point of view.
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And you didn't give XCP-ng a chance?
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@dbeato said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
And you didn't give XCP-ng a chance?
Are you asking me? Of course not. It didn't exist 6 years ago.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@Obsolesce said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@scottalanmiller said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
If Cockpit had functionality "export a backup to <insert remote>" right there I wouldn't be as I have been. Because, you need something additional.
Who else has that command?
Hyper-V Server does have WSB semi built in, it's an additional feature you need to enable. After that it's simple commands or remotely via the GUI.
But why export backup? Backups should already be off the host...
Well, the exporting is what turns a snapshot into a backup, in a sense.
Oh is that what he meant.
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@dbeato said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
And you didn't give XCP-ng a chance?
Are you asking me? Of course not. It didn't exist 6 years ago.
No, I was asking to the OP, XenServer was prior to that but we all know how we felt as soon as 7.1 changes came.
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@JaredBusch said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@dbeato said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
And you didn't give XCP-ng a chance?
Are you asking me? Of course not. It didn't exist 6 years ago.
But you still haven't and continue to piss and moan about XS/XCP-ng and XO as "being my toy". Yet you refuse to try them, at least publicly. (which I haven't made either, besides working to make XO more accessible).
I'd really be interested in a review of XCP-ng and XO from @JaredBusch
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I'm now using XCP-NG, have no issues with whoever uses what for their hypervisor.. this is a more viable solution then KVM in my eyes.
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@StuartJordan said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
I'm now using XCP-NG, have no issues with whoever uses what for their hypervisor.. this is a more viable solution then KVM in my eyes.
To be the devil's advocate. Why is XCP-ng a more viable solution to you over KVM?
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@DustinB3403 - Quick Install with no fuss, snapshot and snapshot schedules, backup with Xen Orchestra.. just nice and easy to use with no fuss just like a hypervisor should be.
I've used KVM with Virt Manager and remember it had issues sometimes connecting with Spice or Vnc...just didn't seem quite as polished in my eyes...
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@StuartJordan so just a general lack of polish on the platform as a whole.
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@StuartJordan said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 - Quick Install with no fuss, snapshot and snapshot schedules, backup with Xen Orchestra.. just nice and easy to use with no fuss just like a hypervisor should be.
I've used KVM with Virt Manager and remember it had issues sometimes connecting with Spice or Vnc...just didn't seem quite as polished in my eyes...
Would you still use it without Xen Orchestra?
I asked because I feel Xen Orchestra has a big part in making an individual to use XenServer/XCP-ng. -
@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
Would you still use it without Xen Orchestra?
I asked because I feel Xen Orchestra has a big part in making an individual to use XenServer/XCP-ng.I would definitely not use XCP-ng without XO. I would probably use Hyper-V and Veeam otherwise.
I want to try KVM, but I don't have time to figure out the backup stuff right now. Maybe it's time I switch my home lab over to KVM.
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@black3dynamite said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@StuartJordan said in Why I Feel KVM Is the Easiest HyperVisor to Learn the Basics On:
@DustinB3403 - Quick Install with no fuss, snapshot and snapshot schedules, backup with Xen Orchestra.. just nice and easy to use with no fuss just like a hypervisor should be.
I've used KVM with Virt Manager and remember it had issues sometimes connecting with Spice or Vnc...just didn't seem quite as polished in my eyes...
Would you still use it without Xen Orchestra?
I asked because I feel Xen Orchestra has a big part in making an individual to use XenServer/XCP-ng.I think a lot of people wouldn't use it, if XO didn't exist or didn't have an open source option to go along with it.
Edit: And I say this because, and only because you then have to mix in something else, like Veeam to create your backups. It's not unheard of, just more complex.
