Unrouted Wireless Network setup
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@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
Or, Upgrade their switch entirely to a bigger switch, with more ports to add the AP's to it directly without the need to jumper the 2 switches together.
This mostly depends on traffic patterns and budget. Adding a switch is cheaper, but slower, than replacing with a bigger switch. But rarely does it matter.
how is it slower? because you have to configure it? You'd have to configure a replacement switch too, so I would think it would be a wash.
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@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
Or, Upgrade their switch entirely to a bigger switch, with more ports to add the AP's to it directly without the need to jumper the 2 switches together.
This mostly depends on traffic patterns and budget. Adding a switch is cheaper, but slower, than replacing with a bigger switch. But rarely does it matter.
how is it slower? because you have to configure it? You'd have to configure a replacement switch too, so I would think it would be a wash.
No, slower because it introduces additional bottlenecks.
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@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
My customer asked me to look into what will be needed, and here i am, trying to give my customer the best answer as to what it will take for their system to be able to run tablets.
It sounds like you're doing something your company specifically does NOT want you doing - anything to do with networking. You shouldn't be giving them any answer, since some other company handles all of the networking. If you engineer it wrong, you'll be blamed, but if you do it right, you have no benefit - and don't say he'll like you more because of it, because the bar owner shouldn't give two shits about you - he only cares about function and cost of your solution, and will bail on you in a second if a better solution comes along.
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@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
Or, Upgrade their switch entirely to a bigger switch, with more ports to add the AP's to it directly without the need to jumper the 2 switches together.
This mostly depends on traffic patterns and budget. Adding a switch is cheaper, but slower, than replacing with a bigger switch. But rarely does it matter.
how is it slower? because you have to configure it? You'd have to configure a replacement switch too, so I would think it would be a wash.
No, slower because it introduces additional bottlenecks.
Ok, that's true, but likely not a real issue in this situation.
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@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
My customer asked me to look into what will be needed, and here i am, trying to give my customer the best answer as to what it will take for their system to be able to run tablets.
It sounds like you're doing something your company specifically does NOT want you doing - anything to do with networking. You shouldn't be giving them any answer, since some other company handles all of the networking. If you engineer it wrong, you'll be blamed, but if you do it right, you have no benefit - and don't say he'll like you more because of it, because the bar owner shouldn't give two shits about you - he only cares about function and cost of your solution, and will bail on you in a second if a better solution comes along.
This is for the sake of learning to think like i'm in an IT job, atleast that was the goal.
My answer to them was "that will be on the company you pick to do the AP's"
I just didn't put that part in, and now I'm being told more and more about how I don't know shit. -
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
My answer to them was "that will be on the company you pick to do the AP's"
That's a fair answer. But they should bring in PCI advisors before they make networking decisions, not bring in PCI "fixers" after it's a problem. It'll be more secure, and vastly cheaper.
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@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
My customer asked me to look into what will be needed, and here i am, trying to give my customer the best answer as to what it will take for their system to be able to run tablets.
That's what I'm trying to answer. I think that they should step back and consider the need for PCI, security, and management. It'll lower costs while providing better results.
I can't believe you're only now after 6+ months of seeing him post about how they set things up
https://i.imgur.com/LslreWp.png
The company he works for believes that because the terminals can't access the internet, that they are safe, hell they might even think they are providing a PCI compliant environment, but of course, you and I both know they are not, in either case.
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@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
My customer asked me to look into what will be needed, and here i am, trying to give my customer the best answer as to what it will take for their system to be able to run tablets.
That's what I'm trying to answer. I think that they should step back and consider the need for PCI, security, and management. It'll lower costs while providing better results.
I can't believe you're only now after 6+ months of seeing him post about how they set things up
https://i.imgur.com/LslreWp.png
The company he works for believes that because the terminals can't access the internet, that they are safe, hell they might even think they are providing a PCI compliant environment, but of course, you and I both know they are not, in either case.
FYI... the PCI docs cover that specifically in page 13 that if the terminals talk to a server, they have to be patched. They actually address that imagined scenario to dispute it ahead of time.
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@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
My customer asked me to look into what will be needed, and here i am, trying to give my customer the best answer as to what it will take for their system to be able to run tablets.
It sounds like you're doing something your company specifically does NOT want you doing - anything to do with networking. You shouldn't be giving them any answer, since some other company handles all of the networking. If you engineer it wrong, you'll be blamed, but if you do it right, you have no benefit - and don't say he'll like you more because of it, because the bar owner shouldn't give two shits about you - he only cares about function and cost of your solution, and will bail on you in a second if a better solution comes along.
This is for the sake of learning to think like i'm in an IT job, atleast that was the goal.
My answer to them was "that will be on the company you pick to do the AP's"
I just didn't put that part in, and now I'm being told more and more about how I don't know shit.Well, sorry, that wasn't my purpose. And leaving that out would have majorly changed any and all answers.
i.e. we would have answered your question more directly. -
@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
My customer asked me to look into what will be needed, and here i am, trying to give my customer the best answer as to what it will take for their system to be able to run tablets.
That's what I'm trying to answer. I think that they should step back and consider the need for PCI, security, and management. It'll lower costs while providing better results.
I can't believe you're only now after 6+ months of seeing him post about how they set things up
https://i.imgur.com/LslreWp.png
The company he works for believes that because the terminals can't access the internet, that they are safe, hell they might even think they are providing a PCI compliant environment, but of course, you and I both know they are not, in either case.
FYI... the PCI docs cover that specifically in page 13 that if the terminals talk to a server, they have to be patched. They actually address that imagined scenario to dispute it ahead of time.
Who's responsible for the PCI compliance? the vendor who sells AND maintains the support contract, or the client who buys it?
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@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
My customer asked me to look into what will be needed, and here i am, trying to give my customer the best answer as to what it will take for their system to be able to run tablets.
That's what I'm trying to answer. I think that they should step back and consider the need for PCI, security, and management. It'll lower costs while providing better results.
I can't believe you're only now after 6+ months of seeing him post about how they set things up
https://i.imgur.com/LslreWp.png
The company he works for believes that because the terminals can't access the internet, that they are safe, hell they might even think they are providing a PCI compliant environment, but of course, you and I both know they are not, in either case.
FYI... the PCI docs cover that specifically in page 13 that if the terminals talk to a server, they have to be patched. They actually address that imagined scenario to dispute it ahead of time.
Who's responsible for the PCI compliance? the vendor who sells AND maintains the support contract, or the client who buys it?
Client who buys it unless they buy an indemnification contract. This is 100% a situation where caveat emptor... the vendor can claim anything that they want and all risks fall to the company that buys the system, they are ultimately on the hook for all compliance.
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@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@Dashrender said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
My customer asked me to look into what will be needed, and here i am, trying to give my customer the best answer as to what it will take for their system to be able to run tablets.
That's what I'm trying to answer. I think that they should step back and consider the need for PCI, security, and management. It'll lower costs while providing better results.
I can't believe you're only now after 6+ months of seeing him post about how they set things up
https://i.imgur.com/LslreWp.png
The company he works for believes that because the terminals can't access the internet, that they are safe, hell they might even think they are providing a PCI compliant environment, but of course, you and I both know they are not, in either case.
FYI... the PCI docs cover that specifically in page 13 that if the terminals talk to a server, they have to be patched. They actually address that imagined scenario to dispute it ahead of time.
Who's responsible for the PCI compliance? the vendor who sells AND maintains the support contract, or the client who buys it?
Client who buys it unless they buy an indemnification contract. This is 100% a situation where caveat emptor... the vendor can claim anything that they want and all risks fall to the company that buys the system, they are ultimately on the hook for all compliance.
Well, then we completely know why his company is doing this, or at least we can make a pretty good assumption.
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Forgetting the PCI stuff for a second, will the tablet even connect with / play nice with a wireless that doesn't have internet access? I can't speak to W10 but recent experience with Android and Apple has them refusing to use the wireless unless it can do a connectivity check out to 8.8.8.8 or another reliable resource.
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@notverypunny said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
Forgetting the PCI stuff for a second, will the tablet even connect with / play nice with a wireless that doesn't have internet access? I can't speak to W10 but recent experience with Android and Apple has them refusing to use the wireless unless it can do a connectivity check out to 8.8.8.8 or another reliable resource.
We can put PCI on the back burner for a while.
We have multiple sites using Tablets.
some are VLANs, while others are completely unrouted, and they work just fine, I even did the AP setup for one site in particular.Could it be because the tablets are a full version of the OS?
I can't speak for Andriod or IOS Kernels, but At least with the Windows 10 Tablets (from my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong..) it's the same OS as if I installed it on a Desktop with a monitor and a mouse. Just the hardware is smaller, and more compacted. I'm sure there's some degree that it's different, because Tablets memory and Storage is no where close to a Desktop PC. but it the OS runs the exact same. -
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
@notverypunny said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
Forgetting the PCI stuff for a second, will the tablet even connect with / play nice with a wireless that doesn't have internet access? I can't speak to W10 but recent experience with Android and Apple has them refusing to use the wireless unless it can do a connectivity check out to 8.8.8.8 or another reliable resource.
We can put PCI on the back burner for a while.
We have multiple sites using Tablets.
some are VLANs, while others are completely unrouted, and they work just fine, I even did the AP setup for one site in particular.Could it be because the tablets are a full version of the OS?
I can't speak for Andriod or IOS Kernels, but At least with the Windows 10 Tablets (from my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong..) it's the same OS as if I installed it on a Desktop with a monitor and a mouse. Just the hardware is smaller, and more compacted. I'm sure there's some degree that it's different, because Tablets memory and Storage is no where close to a Desktop PC. but it the OS runs the exact same.You are correct, Windows on x64/x86 is the same regardless of hardware.
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@notverypunny said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
Forgetting the PCI stuff for a second, will the tablet even connect with / play nice with a wireless that doesn't have internet access? I can't speak to W10 but recent experience with Android and Apple has them refusing to use the wireless unless it can do a connectivity check out to 8.8.8.8 or another reliable resource.
Good point, I never think about that. They like to refuse offline networks quite often.
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@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
Could it be because the tablets are a full version of the OS?
Yes, Windows, Ubuntu, CentOS, Fedora, macOS, etc. all couldn't care less if you have Internet or not. It's iOS and Android that do.
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@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
full version of the OS?
There aren't any partial OSes out there. That's not actually a thing
iOS and Android are full OSes, just not desktop OSes. -
@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
I can't speak for Andriod or IOS Kernels, but At least with the Windows 10 Tablets (from my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong..) it's the same OS as if I installed it on a Desktop with a monitor and a mouse.
OS is the OS. Whether iOS, Android, Windows 10, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc. the behavior of the OS is the behavior of the OS. It doesn't change based on the shape of the hardware, which is all that a tablet is. iOS and Android retain all their limitations if you put them onto a desktop. Windows 10 or Ubuntu retain all their flexibility even when put on something that looks like a tablet.
Think of it from a "if you built it yourself" perspective. The screen is just the monitor, the CPU is always the same, the RAM is the same, etc. If you unplug the keyboard and mouse from a desktop box or laptop, the OS can't tell what the shape, size, or weight of the box that it is in is. And even desktops often have touch screens. So if you build the box and put the OS on it, it's the OS itself (and your settings) that determine behaviour, there's nothing else to do it.
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@WrCombs said in Unrouted Wireless Network setup:
I'm sure there's some degree that it's different, because Tablets memory and Storage is no where close to a Desktop PC. but it the OS runs the exact same.
The fastest computer in my house is a tablet. Intel i7 9th gen, 16GB RAM, NVMe storage. Way faster than any of our laptops or desktops.
Tablet is just a shape and while they can't contain the power of a giant gaming rig, they can do anything a laptop or normal business desktop can do. It's literally just the shape.
