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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
So you paid $620 for a gaming device in 2019 (excluding accessories like games, monitor, controller, keyboard/mouse, etc), that isn't any better than much lower priced consoles released in 2016/2017?
LOL. Well if you look at it that myopically, still no. Don't think of it like a consumer, think of it like a business. If this were an IT buying decision, you'd never state it like this. There's a couple points to make..
The PS4 Pro XBox One uses a Jaguar processor, replaced in 2014. So that's some ancient low end tech that you were paying for in 2017. Not only is it old and slow, it's only four cores in those devices. This is double the cores, each vastly higher performance.
Then there is the GPU. While the PS4 Pro has a decent GPU, it's still 20% less than this one. There's a reason that this GPU alone costs so much today - it's still above all those consoles in power.
Then there is RAM, 16GB + 4GB instead of 8GB total. Pretty big gap there.
So the first point.... no console on the market even in 2018 could hold a candle to this rig, not even close.
Then the price. This came with keyboard / mouse, just like a console comes with a controller or two. But a BIG piece of the PC gaming ecosystem is the ability to keep using good gear. So the same controllers we've had for half a decade are all pristine and all work with this. So unlike on a console where I'd need new ones, the investment that I already have keeps working.
But ALL of that is background noise. The real factor is the games. I have an existing library, that is constantly growing, of over 2,000 games. I get at least a game a week (if not a game a day) from Epic. I constantly buy from Steam & GOG. My library is massive. And it all just keeps working. Ones I bought years ago, ones I just bought. And they keep getting better as I can crank up the specs more and more. And those games, I'm getting them for an itty bitty fraction of the cost of the console games while having a vastly larger selection to choose from. Most games I want to play aren't available on consoles, so paying anything, let alone a lot, for a console with very few games to play on it would be crazy.
So let's look at TCO. I spend something like $1200 over the course of 2-3 years to have what I have. Had I gone with a console I'd have spent what, maybe $3,000 - $4,000 to get the same general amount of games, but a way lower end device?
So yeah... I think saving a few grand to get a much better experience is the smart money. The math says this is the only way to go if you like to game. Now, if you are buying a Nintendo Switch for Animal Crossings and never want to play another game and it's available nowhere else.... well then that's what you need to do. But if you are a gamer and plan to play any number of games, the gap between PC and consoles gets pretty large - especially if you start getting into that "exclusives" game where you need several consoles because each one has something unique. Nintendo especially has that issue, but they all do (so does the PC.) But the PC game selection is so much bigger than all the consoles combined... it really gives you an opportunity to just save your money and get "unlimited" games on a single platform.
Add to that that if I buy games on a console, I have to play them on that console and tie it up. But if I buy games on PC I can use them on any of several computers that I have otherwise (not all are gaming rigs) so that I have loads of flexibility with them on hardware I already own. So the utility of any individual game is magnified significantly. Case in point... my wife played loads of games on her laptop over the holiday, no need to bring our gaming machine with us to use all the games. I have some games on my laptop for when I'm traveling and need something to play. My kids have an older gaming rig in their bedroom and the big gaming rig in the living room. We get so much more out of it (before we even consider streaming elements) than you can with a console (without buying lots of consoles.)
So when you look at it from an IT / business perspective, it all makes sense.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
So simple answer.... oh hell yeah my PC is SO much better than a console, lol.
Considering every year my in laws offer to buy us a console (because they like buying consoles) and every year we tell them not to because we don't want games on consoles because they are way, way too costly and we don't want the lower quality... I'm paying for the PC when the consoles would be free. And the difference in the cost of games is so large that it still makes it worlds cheaper to get the better experience!
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And that's just the tip of the iceberg... any old console I own just turns into worthless crap that you put in a box or throw away. What the heck do you do with last gen consoles?
But gaming PCs can be moved into "secondary gaming rigs for less demanding games" that handle new games for many years after you want to replace them as your main rig. And even after that, because of how much power they tend to have, they can always be redeployed for work or other tasks because they are PCs!
And all of that is in addition to them being useful as desktops whenever you need them to be as well.
I could spend all day looking at how spending SO much less on my PC gaming ecosystem and getting SO much more out of it is better. But the basics are.... pay way less, get way more. What else is there?
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The PS4 Pro XBox One uses a Jaguar processor, replaced in 2014.
Oh, I thought gameplay mostly used the GPU. Oh wait, it does!
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Not only is it old and slow, it's only four cores in those devices. This is double the cores, each vastly higher performance.
Not what i'm seeing here, but again, don't think it really matters at all so much for playing those games.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
XBox One uses a Jaguar processor, replaced in 2014
Xbox one was release in 2013. One X which is now $350 uses a 6 teraflop Scorpio card.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Then there is the GPU. While the PS4 Pro has a decent GPU, it's still 20% less than this one. There's a reason that this GPU alone costs so much today - it's still above all those consoles in power.
Right, but again, when you spent your money, what you're comparing it against is still 3+ years older so of course. A lot depends on when you buy what you buy.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Then there is the GPU. While the PS4 Pro has a decent GPU, it's still 20% less than this one. There's a reason that this GPU alone costs so much today - it's still above all those consoles in power.
Right, but again, when you spent your money, what you're comparing it against is still 3+ years older so of course. A lot depends on when you buy what you buy.
This is a pretty big issue for consoles too though - seeing an upgrade/update only every 4-5 years... means you stuck with withever it gives you for that entire period. Now that said - I'm willing to bet most console gamers don't give a shit, they are just fine/happy with what they get for the entire timeframe.. and hell, most don't even buy the console when it's released.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Then there is the GPU. While the PS4 Pro has a decent GPU, it's still 20% less than this one. There's a reason that this GPU alone costs so much today - it's still above all those consoles in power.
Then there is RAM, 16GB + 4GB instead of 8GB total. Pretty big gap there.One X has 12 GB of RAM and doesn't have to run Windows. The GPU in the One X is comparable to the RX580 (higher shaders but lower core clock).
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
But ALL of that is background noise. The real factor is the games. I have an existing library, that is constantly growing, of over 2,000 games.
That's.... wow, yeah. For me, I probably wouldn't be interested in a single one of those games, like ever! But yes I see your point there, a 2000 game library that's some serious investment and definitely justifies sticking strictly to PC gaming for that specific case. That's very subjective, when you start getting in to game specifics, because like I said, depends on your taste of games. I personally probably would not be interested in playing any of those even if given to me for free, but the games I chose to play on console, and have available to me there, I do, but you likely wouldn't.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Add to that that if I buy games on a console, I have to play them on that console and tie it up. But if I buy games on PC I can use them on any of several computers that I have otherwise (not all are gaming rigs) so that I have loads of flexibility with them on hardware I already own. So the utility of any individual game is magnified significantly. Case in point... my wife played loads of games on her laptop over the holiday, no need to bring our gaming machine with us to use all the games. I have some games on my laptop for when I'm traveling and need something to play. My kids have an older gaming rig in their bedroom and the big gaming rig in the living room. We get so much more out of it (before we even consider streaming elements) than you can with a console (without buying lots of consoles.)
This is changing now. All games I want to play on Xbox (as example) now I can also play on my gaming PC and some on Android... so meh, but console provides us as a family with a different experience than a PC does. This may be just us, and I suppose your case will be different.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
So when you look at it from an IT / business perspective, it all makes sense.
Looking at it from a business perspective also means realizing different businesses exist in different industries and have different goals and requirements. So rather than you saying, yes this solution is the best solution (PC gaming) for 100% of all businesses in the world, I take a different approach.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
way too costly and we don't want the lower quality
Not if you spend more money on worse hardware than a console. Depends on what/when you buy, what ecosystem, what your existing gaming investments and portfolio looks like, etc. Like that you have 2000 steam games... that's never something I ever have to worry about lol. IMO it's kind of ridiculous, but I am sure there are a few of you out there. I mean, some have petabytes of movies, others music, and in your case games. To each their own I say.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
And that's just the tip of the iceberg... any old console I own just turns into worthless crap that you put in a box or throw away. What the heck do you do with last gen consoles?
But gaming PCs can be moved into "secondary gaming rigs for less demanding games" that handle new games for many years after you want to replace them as your main rig.
My kids still enjoy a first gen Nintendo Wii in 2021!
You can do the same with an old console as you do with an old gaming PC.
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@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
And even after that, because of how much power they tend to have, they can always be redeployed for work or other tasks because they are PCs!
And all of that is in addition to them being useful as desktops whenever you need them to be as well.At that point, you're no longer comparing apples to apples.
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@Obsolesce said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
The PS4 Pro XBox One uses a Jaguar processor, replaced in 2014.
Oh, I thought gameplay mostly used the GPU. Oh wait, it does!
Yeah, and it has more GPU power, too!
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@stacksofplates said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
XBox One uses a Jaguar processor, replaced in 2014
Xbox one was release in 2013. One X which is now $350 uses a 6 teraflop Scorpio card.
Right, which is better than mine, but only a little bit, and JUST came out.
