What Are You Doing Right Now
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This topic has taught me that almost everyone on SW actively is scamming their companies and is getting sales people to do their jobs for them and actually have created a community where feel that they can publicly act like it is obvious that their job is to do nothing and that they are just paid to let sales people screw the companies that they work for. I would fire nearly everyone over there if they worked for me. Not just lazy but blatantly sabotaging their companies and zero care that they aren't even considering doing the jobs that they are paid to do. It's unreal.
http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1379258-is-it-lazy-to-have-a-vendor-do-your-research-for-you
The topic is just about a TV. whatever. But the concept is simple... people are paid to do a job and they are refusing to do it and instead of protecting the company from sales people they are selling the company out directly to the people they are hired to protect them from. And no shame about it! If the businesses were okay with letting sales people just dictate everything, why did they hire the IT people in the first place?
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I know how you feel about sales people, but I think you can trust the right sales people, always with a modicum of research yourself.
Trust but verify.
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@BRRABill said:
I know how you feel about sales people, but I think you can trust the right sales people, always with a modicum of research yourself.
Trust but verify.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with trust. It is not their job. They don't have the knowledge, the skills, the motivation, the role, the responsibility or a reason to do this well. There is one and only one person whose job this is: the IT pros.
Anyone who would give you good advice is screwing the employer. By definition you can't have a sales person that is trustworthy for IT advice. It's literally impossible. Either they are being unethical to you, to their employer or both. Plain and simple. It's not an option that they are "trustable."
But they are sales people, there is no need for trust as there is nothing to trust. They are not advisers so trust doesn't come into the picture at all. That trust is even considers shows that there is a breakdown.
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@BRRABill said:
I know how you feel about sales people, but I think you can trust the right sales people,
Those that are scamming their employers? What would a "right" sales person mean to you? To me it is one that ethically does their job and you could never get advice from one of those.
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Perhaps I am thinking of this on a SOHO level, as usual.
Like if I am thinking of switching AV products, I could reach out to my CDW rep and ask what they like. They ask questions, and come back with something. Generally not my salesperson but the AV person who works there. The AV person would call me and we discuss. Perhaps this is not a true salesperson type scenario. But that is how CDW works at least.
It's not like I am calling and saying "I have $X,000 to spend on AV what's the best?" I know I'll get one that costs $X,000.
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To IT pros, a best case scenario for this is where WE are the guilty party and screwing a sales person. I've had customers do that to gullible sales people. No matter how it plays out, either the customer or the sales person or both HAS to be unethical and taking advantage of someone for that situation to play out. Because the person hired to do the job isn't doing it no matter what.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Those that are scamming their employers? What would a "right" sales person mean to you? To me it is one that ethically does their job and you could never get advice from one of those.
It's like the people here on the forum that work for vendors and give us advice. I trust them, as much as I trust anyone.
I don't blindly follow anyone. Even you. LOL.
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Everyone is a sales person at some level.
You trust your plumber, right? If he says you need ... whatever ... do you just do it, or have him leave and then research. I generally, trusting him, just let him do it.
But we've used him for years and there is a track record.
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@BRRABill said:
Perhaps I am thinking of this on a SOHO level, as usual.
Level is never a factor. This applies to individual people too. It's just a basic human interaction.
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@BRRABill said:
Like if I am thinking of switching AV products, I could reach out to my CDW rep and ask what they like. They ask questions, and come back with something. Generally not my salesperson but the AV person who works there. The AV person would call me and we discuss. Perhaps this is not a true salesperson type scenario. But that is how CDW works at least.
It is and they take advantage of you. CDW is especially famous for the amount that they take advantage of people setting themselves up like this. This is the most common example of what to avoid.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Those that are scamming their employers? What would a "right" sales person mean to you? To me it is one that ethically does their job and you could never get advice from one of those.
It's like the people here on the forum that work for vendors and give us advice. I trust them, as much as I trust anyone.
I don't blindly follow anyone. Even you. LOL.
They aren't people you are soliciting to do the IT work for you. You don't take advice from them. You don't post here and ask vendors to make your decisions for you.
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@BRRABill said:
You trust your plumber, right? If he says you need ... whatever ... do you just do it, or have him leave and then research. I generally, trusting him, just let him do it.
I do NOT pay a plumber to tell me what to buy that he is selling. He tells me what to buy, I buy it elsewhere. I pay the plumber directly for advice. He's a consultant. The sales person is the person that tells me what aisle to find the product in. I trust them to tell me the aisle and if the item is in stock, not if I should buy it or not.
You don't PAY CDW to consult, right? if not, then this example has no relationship to your other example.
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On a side note, I've never used CDW because their prices are always higher for the same stuff as my other distributors. I mostly use Amazon now, but I also use D&H a lot. Great service and it's usually fast shipping, like next day if I order before 3 pm.
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@BRRABill said:
Generally not my salesperson but the AV person who works there. The AV person would call me and we discuss. Perhaps this is not a true salesperson type scenario. But that is how CDW works at least.
Everyone at CDW is a salesperson. that's the only customer facing staff that they have.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BRRABill said:
Generally not my salesperson but the AV person who works there. The AV person would call me and we discuss. Perhaps this is not a true salesperson type scenario. But that is how CDW works at least.
Everyone at CDW is a salesperson. that's the only staff that they have.
FTFY.
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@johnhooks said:
On a side note, I've never used CDW because their prices are always higher for the same stuff as my other distributors. I mostly use Amazon now, but I also use D&H a lot. Great service and it's usually fast shipping, like next day if I order before 3 pm.
Yup, there is no way for CDW to be super competitive because they have this really heavy sales person and quoting system where IT pros get to "feel" like they are getting away getting free consulting and have to do zero legwork. It is literally a form of paying someone else to do their jobs for them. Literally. They actually pay extra to offload the job that they were hired to do. CDW charges a premium for doing their work AND sells them higher end items when possible and more of them when possible (like SANs.)
But the important thing here... none of this is bad for CDW to do. It is the IT Pros that are shifting money to CDW to have CDW do the IT work. CDW is just providing a service and not doing anything remotely wrong. You can trust CDW to do exactly what they are there to do - find ways to sell you more. They are very ethical and trustworthy. You just have to know what you are trusting them to do.
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@DustinB3403 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BRRABill said:
Generally not my salesperson but the AV person who works there. The AV person would call me and we discuss. Perhaps this is not a true salesperson type scenario. But that is how CDW works at least.
Everyone at CDW is a salesperson. that's the only staff that they have.
FTFY.
jThey have warehouse people I think.
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Just to give some perspective on the attitudes at play, at the bottom of that thread people are openly suggesting that if the company actually expects that guy to do the job that he is paid to do that he should actively retaliate for being required to work and waste time running up the tab to make the company pay for having expected him to work.
It's a very actively unethical attitude going on there.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I do NOT pay a plumber to tell me what to buy that he is selling. He tells me what to buy, I buy it elsewhere. I pay the plumber directly for advice. He's a consultant. The sales person is the person that tells me what aisle to find the product in. I trust them to tell me the aisle and if the item is in stock, not if I should buy it or not.
I'm talking about the one who comes to your house. That most people hire to do plumbing work for them.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Just to give some perspective on the attitudes at play, at the bottom of that thread people are openly suggesting that if the company actually expects that guy to do the job that he is paid to do that he should actively retaliate for being required to work and waste time running up the tab to make the company pay for having expected him to work.
It's a very actively unethical attitude going on there.
Yeah, that part is ridiculous. I think a lot of those posts have merit, though.
You yourself said CDW was trustworthy. So if I feel they give me good advice (I NEVER rely on them to do the research fully) and their price is similar to other places, why wouldn't I use them?
For me, price is always key.
