XP Mode on Windows 10
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@DustinB3403 said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
@Carnival-Boy said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
Since Windows 10 doesn't include an XP mode, is it possible, on a new PC that includes a Windows 10 OEM licence with Windows 7 downgrade rights, to install Windows 10 and then install Windows 7 as a virtual machine under Windows 10? And then use XP mode within the Windows 7 virtual machine.
Or to put it another way, does the OEM licence allow you to install both Windows 10 and Windows 7 on the same machine (one as a virtual machine), or can you only install one or the other.
Failing that, what are the alternatives for licencing a Windows 7 or XP VM on a Windows 10 PC?
I've never understood Windows licencing.
The easy approach to this would be to enable hyper-v on windows 10, and create a XP VM inside of that. Of course you still need licensing.
Volume keys I believe are the only keys allowed for this. I may be wrong though.
You are absolutely wrong that a VL would allow you to install two OSes on the same hardware with a single VL license. And since VL licenses are only upgrade licenses, you'd have to assign to OEM/FFS licenses to the box first, making the VL pointless.
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So what can I do to make this legal?
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@Dashrender said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
@DustinB3403 said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
@Carnival-Boy said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
Since Windows 10 doesn't include an XP mode, is it possible, on a new PC that includes a Windows 10 OEM licence with Windows 7 downgrade rights, to install Windows 10 and then install Windows 7 as a virtual machine under Windows 10? And then use XP mode within the Windows 7 virtual machine.
Or to put it another way, does the OEM licence allow you to install both Windows 10 and Windows 7 on the same machine (one as a virtual machine), or can you only install one or the other.
Failing that, what are the alternatives for licencing a Windows 7 or XP VM on a Windows 10 PC?
I've never understood Windows licencing.
The easy approach to this would be to enable hyper-v on windows 10, and create a XP VM inside of that. Of course you still need licensing.
Volume keys I believe are the only keys allowed for this. I may be wrong though.
You are absolutely wrong that a VL would allow you to install two OSes on the same hardware with a single VL license. And since VL licenses are only upgrade licenses, you'd have to assign to OEM/FFS licenses to the box first, making the VL pointless.
I meant (and clearly didn't explain it) that you'd need XP licensing.
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@Carnival-Boy said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
Failing that, what are the alternatives for licencing a Windows 7 or XP VM on a Windows 10 PC?
You could purchase a full license of Windows 7 or XP, install that as VM on Windows 10. Then you would be legal.
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Can you still buy full Windows 7 licences. (I assume "full" means retail, here)?
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@Dashrender said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
@Carnival-Boy said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
Failing that, what are the alternatives for licencing a Windows 7 or XP VM on a Windows 10 PC?
You could purchase a full license of Windows 7 or XP, install that as VM on Windows 10. Then you would be legal.
Yes, only a full license of either XP or a version containing XP Mode will allow for XP on Windows 10. Also, it cannot be access by anyone other than the main user or it needs VDI licensing as well. Also, this is nested virtualization if you use XP Mode so be prepared for potential headaches there.
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@Carnival-Boy said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
Can you still buy full Windows 7 licences. (I assume "full" means retail, here)?
Correct. You really do want to find an XP license instead, as Scott mentioned you want to avoid the VM inside a VM thing.
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Why would you want to run anything in Windows XP? That is the real problem here. If your software doesn't support anything higher than Windows XP, then you need a new vendor.
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@IRJ said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
Why would you want to run anything in Windows XP? That is the real problem here. If your software doesn't support anything higher than Windows XP, then you need a new vendor.
This is far more important than people realize. Instead of trying to find XP Mode or XP licensing, let's back up and ask... How can we eliminate a need for Windows XP?
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@scottalanmiller said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
How can we eliminate a need for Windows XP?
Get someone to rewrite the 20 year old bespoke programs we use. But that's more of a long term objective.
Can you still buy Windows 7 or XP licences?
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@Carnival-Boy said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
How can we eliminate a need for Windows XP?
Get someone to rewrite the 20 year old bespoke programs we use. But that's more of a long term objective.
Can you still buy Windows 7 or XP licences?
Windows XP is just getting more and more vulnerable each day. You might as well just find a solution now instead of waiting another 20 years.
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Of course we all (in this forum at least) want to be on the current version of software.
Sadly, many businesses (mostly small, but definitely not exclusively) buy into things that have a longer life than the software around which they operate.
Two examples:
A print shop that has a $100K printer that only works with XP - the vendor never bothers to produce new drivers, the vendor wants you to buy a new printer instead.Medical equipment (specific case - Toshiba CT machine). Even when installed in 2007 it came with Windows 2000. It was the only "FDA certified" option at the time. Now I have to assume there were Linux OSs that were certified, but of course Toshiba wasn't programming for those. To this day, still running on Windows 2000.
A replacement machine would only be stepping up to Windows 7 at this point.
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@Carnival-Boy said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
How can we eliminate a need for Windows XP?
Get someone to rewrite the 20 year old bespoke programs we use. But that's more of a long term objective.
Can you still buy Windows 7 or XP licences?
The sooner you fix that problem, the faster you get a better program with fewer problems like getting XP running
Working on issues like this increases the cost of old bespoke problems that are no longer supported.Can you buy? Yes, but generally only from eBay and sources like that.
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@Dashrender said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
Of course we all (in this forum at least) want to be on the current version of software.
Sadly, many businesses (mostly small, but definitely not exclusively) buy into things that have a longer life than the software around which they operate.
Two examples:
A print shop that has a $100K printer that only works with XP - the vendor never bothers to produce new drivers, the vendor wants you to buy a new printer instead.Medical equipment (specific case - Toshiba CT machine). Even when installed in 2007 it came with Windows 2000. It was the only "FDA certified" option at the time. Now I have to assume there were Linux OSs that were certified, but of course Toshiba wasn't programming for those. To this day, still running on Windows 2000.
A replacement machine would only be stepping up to Windows 7 at this point.
When you do bespoke you can generally avoid this, though. This is something that I go on and on about - both using open, standard and proper approaches to give you the best chances of avoiding lock in as well as using modern techniques so that anything that ages at least ages as best as possible.
Something only twenty years old that is stuck with XP today was not written to an acceptable standard twenty years ago. Twenty years is not that long and whoever wrote it must have known that they were time bombing the system by design - normal software doesn't get locked into an OS version very easily, that normally takes planning or serious incompetence.
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@Carnival-Boy said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
Get someone to rewrite the 20 year old bespoke programs we use. But that's more of a long term objective.
Have we asked this before: What aspect of the software creates the dependency? Is it a library, a .NET thing, is it that it is compiled and only works there? What about XP compatibility rather than XP itself?
Also, be aware that any use of XP Mode or an XP VM as a server (I'm guessing that this is a service situation) will definitely require VDI.
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For the simplest current solution, I'd hit eBay and grab XP. I am guessing that XP is getting more expensive these days as people who have a copy know that they control the supply and that no more will ever be available.
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@scottalanmiller said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
normal software doesn't get locked into an OS version very easily, that normally takes planning or serious incompetence.
I'll take serious incompetence for $2000 Alex.
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@Dashrender said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
normal software doesn't get locked into an OS version very easily, that normally takes planning or serious incompetence.
I'll take serious incompetence for $2000 Alex.
You'd think that, but it is pretty accepted in software circles that you can't reasonably be able to write software and not understand how to avoid this issue. The majority of cases, it is accepted, are that developers see a chance to make something work quickly and easy for minimal effort that then guarantees that the customer will have to keep paying them in the future on a more or less set schedule. Whether most do this or not, lots do. It's a very standard practice and thing to look for where weird, impractical and totally unnecessary "lock in" and "time bomb" features get added to software.
Are there cases where lock in happens for legitimate reasons? Absolutely. Even if you are writing on Python or PHP on CentOS Linux you can run into this, and almost certainly will. But starting from a good place you normally time out with an average lifespan of something like thirty years, not five.
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When I was programming I assumed that my programs would be upgraded way soon than 20 years. I never once thought "wait a minute, this is 16 bit, what happens when people can only run 64 bit OSes?". And it's not normally a massive job if you keep the source code and the code is well documented. Problems occur when the source code disappears, for whatever reason, and there is no documentation. So you have to re-write the program from scratch.
For all I know, people are going through this exact thing with programs I wrote 20 years ago. I'd like to think that my programs were that awesome that they're still in use, but i doubt it.
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@scottalanmiller said in XP Mode on Windows 10:
For the simplest current solution, I'd hit eBay and grab XP. I am guessing that XP is getting more expensive these days as people who have a copy know that they control the supply and that no more will ever be available.
Isn't eBay a bit dodgy? What happens when it won't activate and you phone Microsoft and explain that you bought it off eBay? Are they likely to be sympathetic?
