Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video
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@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
The CCNA is too junior for any networking job. So this doesn't fit. The CCNP is the entry level cert for working in Cisco networking. So there is this huge mismatch where they seem to be looking for someone who has "heard about networking" but is an experienced, skilled, multi-vendor systems expert?
CCNA Essential Criteria at all of these:
http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-FTC-12-Job-1287686.aspx
http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-350-Contract-Job-1286860.aspx
http://www.nijobs.com/Network-Support-Analyst-Job-1286064.aspx
http://www.nijobs.com/Cisco-Network-Security-Specialist-Job-1288862.aspx
http://www.nijobs.com/Senior-IT-Infrastructure-Analyst-Job-1288288.aspxI only read the first of these but I think I have an idea of what they all say... basically these are networking jobs that are smart enough to only demand the CCNA. That doesn't imply that the CCNA is enough to get you the job, just that it is a minimum requirement. Remember that in a real job, those lists are a minimum, nothing more. So requiring anything specific is a bad idea, because you don't want to avoid the best candidates who just happened to not go and get the cert that you assumed would go with the job. The CCNA is super ultra basic for the Cisco world, so they feel safe making it a requirement. But that doesn't imply that without a CCNP that you'd have any chance of getting in the door, realistically you would not. But if you had a CCNA and twenty years of solid Cisco experience, they'd ignore the lack of CCNP.
So in this case, from a VERY quick look at how they wrote it, it sounds completely reasonable. They listed a minimum requirement in a smart way.
A lot of it is in how it is presented. The first one seemed to be looking for a CCNA level person, this one that I just checked is just making the CCNA a minimum starting point for who they are willing to talk to.
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Cisco entry level certificates are CCENT and CCT. Passing 100-105 ICND1 Interconnecting Cisco Networking Devices Part 1 to get 2 parts way CCNA, automatically provides CCENT certificate. I am currently preparing for this one and it looks more technical than CompTIA Network+ for me.
Yes, CCNA is Cisco specific, but if advertised Juniper engineer job usually stated that Cisco engineers are welcome, but not all way around.
Majority of vacancies, where CCNA mentioned at all, are more senior positions, perhaps it just UK specific. -
@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
My friend advised using "fantasy" - write in CV that I was involved in some projects, which is not true. But later I started thinking I can make it true. I can establish my own company find a few little customers. I have some other income, so for me would be enough just cover expenses in the worse case. If I did that 2 years ago it was 2 years commercial experience by now.
Always "make it true." That's one of the great things about IT. There are always ways to make it true. Some ideas:
- Start your own company. This is both direct IT and direct business experience. The challenge here is getting work that is high enough level to matter.
- Volunteer. Non-profits or civil organizations often need IT and can't afford it. This can be one of the best ways to get real commercial experience without needing to start your own company.
- Home Lab. Build a massive home lab and do (and document) absolutely everything. Document it here on MangoLassi, in fact! Or write a blog. Or both. Don't just "do the work" but do it, document it and have a "portfolio" to show off to employers. When they ask "have you done X", you don't just know the material better because you did it, you have a "story to tell" and documented "proof" online where you wrote about it and you can point them to that. Doing stuff at home cradle to grave and running it in your own production is a massively impressive thing to have. Make them ashamed at how much more you do at home than they do at the office.
- Find an MSP and see about work there. MSP experience moves you faster than internal IT staff work, typically. Still requires getting hired, so not a magic answer by any stretch.
- Intern. In the US, at least, interning for free is totally normal and you can do this and build experience with all kinds of businesses and hopefully have a mentor that helps you, as well.
- It would fill resume gap automatically because has establishing date even if the company is dormant and there is a little chance that business will be successful. If I get IT contractor job would have to establish Ltd anyways. I am in the process already - domain and hosting paid for a year upfront.
- Looks time-consuming and it would be commercial experience in what area? Microsoft office support? Organizations like that do not have much of infrastructure and no Linux servers.
- I have a home lab and document it would be beneficial in any way.
- Strange never came to my head.
- Basically, none advertised and if so then for students of just after school.
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@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
Anyway, my problem now that I am overqualified for junior positions and I do not have recent commercial experience for better once.
I've not checked the CV that you posted yet, but what makes you overqualified for junior positions?
Some employers and agencies told me directly, perhaps it just polite way to say "you are too old".
Statistics, in a couple of years I have applied for approximately 250 jobs and have received some feedback regarding medium and senior positions and nearly zero regarding junior. -
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
Cisco entry level certificates are CCENT and CCT.
Those are entry level CERTS, not certs for entry level JOBS. Does that make sense? Like the MTA on Windows, the CCENT might be the lowest level cert that Cisco offers, but it is a "pre-pro" level cert that falls below entry level in the job market.
Just like the MCSA is the entry level job cert for Windows Administration, the CCNP is really the entry level cert for Cisco Network Administration.
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@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
Majority of vacancies, where CCNA mentioned at all, are more senior positions, perhaps it just UK specific.
I think you are being misled by fake job postings. CCNA is so far below senior level, it's just silly. Listing a CCNA as being important for a senior job should itself be an obvious flag that the job is fake. Either that it is not really a job at all, or that it is not the job that it claims to be (not senior, not networking, etc.)
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@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
- Looks time-consuming and it would be commercial experience in what area? Microsoft office support? Organizations like that do not have much of infrastructure and no Linux servers.
You might feel that way, but you'd be in control. I did this myself and built out and entire Linux infrastructure for a K12 school in New York. Desktops, servers, storage, networking, phones, you name it. I did it all. That experience wasn't just amazing as a learning experience, it was, along with my home lab, what walked me in to the most senior role on Canary Wharf in pure tech. I was the only Linux person they had ever had with the scale of cradle to grave experience that they had seen and I got put in charge of the entire Linux infrastructure for the largest bank in the world.
Was that the only thing on my resume? Heck no. Did I have Fortune 10 experience before that? Yes. Did I use Linux before that? Yes. Am I good in interviews? Yes. So I'm not claiming that a couple years of volunteer work took me from new IT guy to true senior overnight. But there is no doubt that it was one of the biggest factors that there could be.
I was a decently senior IT person before that. But my volunteer work changed my knowledge, confidence and immediately caused me to triple my earnings.
Opportunities are out there, you just have to make them.
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@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
Anyway, my problem now that I am overqualified for junior positions and I do not have recent commercial experience for better once.
I've not checked the CV that you posted yet, but what makes you overqualified for junior positions?
Some employers and agencies told me directly, perhaps it just polite way to say "you are too old".
That's not overqualified, that's ... well, that's illegal most places.
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@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
Statistics, in a couple of years I have applied for approximately 250 jobs and have received some feedback regarding medium and senior positions and nearly zero regarding junior.
Given your resume, why apply for senior positions? Given that you are making a major career change, it's just not reasonable to step into a senior role.
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@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
Statistics, in a couple of years I have applied for approximately 250 jobs and have received some feedback regarding medium and senior positions and nearly zero regarding junior.
Given your resume, why apply for senior positions? Given that you are making a major career change, it's just not reasonable to step into a senior role.
I have to apply for at least 5 jobs every two weeks, junior positions not always available.
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@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
- Looks time-consuming and it would be commercial experience in what area? Microsoft office support? Organizations like that do not have much of infrastructure and no Linux servers.
You might feel that way, but you'd be in control. I did this myself and built out and entire Linux infrastructure for a K12 school in New York. Desktops, servers, storage, networking, phones, you name it. I did it all. That experience wasn't just amazing as a learning experience, it was, along with my home lab, what walked me in to the most senior role on Canary Wharf in pure tech. I was the only Linux person they had ever had with the scale of cradle to grave experience that they had seen and I got put in charge of the entire Linux infrastructure for the largest bank in the world.
Was that the only thing on my resume? Heck no. Did I have Fortune 10 experience before that? Yes. Did I use Linux before that? Yes. Am I good in interviews? Yes. So I'm not claiming that a couple years of volunteer work took me from new IT guy to true senior overnight. But there is no doubt that it was one of the biggest factors that there could be.
I was a decently senior IT person before that. But my volunteer work changed my knowledge, confidence and immediately caused me to triple my earnings.
Opportunities are out there, you just have to make them.
Something like that could be done though Ltd like business charity or discount service. Expenses would reduce profit taxes then. And perhaps it is the only way in the UK because there are so many regulations to do something in schools these days.
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@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
Statistics, in a couple of years I have applied for approximately 250 jobs and have received some feedback regarding medium and senior positions and nearly zero regarding junior.
Given your resume, why apply for senior positions? Given that you are making a major career change, it's just not reasonable to step into a senior role.
I have to apply for at least 5 jobs every two weeks, junior positions not always available.
Oh, I see. That makes sense.
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Sounds like a government scheme to make businesses see a flood of job submissions, even if they are not real. That's actually a "fake job / listing" concept that I'd never considered before. There are cases where the government forces people to submit to jobs that likely don't exist, but it makes companies feel like the country has more workers than it really does. Tricky.
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@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
- Looks time-consuming and it would be commercial experience in what area? Microsoft office support? Organizations like that do not have much of infrastructure and no Linux servers.
You might feel that way, but you'd be in control. I did this myself and built out and entire Linux infrastructure for a K12 school in New York. Desktops, servers, storage, networking, phones, you name it. I did it all. That experience wasn't just amazing as a learning experience, it was, along with my home lab, what walked me in to the most senior role on Canary Wharf in pure tech. I was the only Linux person they had ever had with the scale of cradle to grave experience that they had seen and I got put in charge of the entire Linux infrastructure for the largest bank in the world.
Was that the only thing on my resume? Heck no. Did I have Fortune 10 experience before that? Yes. Did I use Linux before that? Yes. Am I good in interviews? Yes. So I'm not claiming that a couple years of volunteer work took me from new IT guy to true senior overnight. But there is no doubt that it was one of the biggest factors that there could be.
I was a decently senior IT person before that. But my volunteer work changed my knowledge, confidence and immediately caused me to triple my earnings.
Opportunities are out there, you just have to make them.
Something like that could be done though Ltd like business charity or discount service. Expenses would reduce profit taxes then. And perhaps it is the only way in the UK because there are so many regulations to do something in schools these days.
Or just volunteer. Don't know about in the UK, but the US looks favorably upon donating your time and effort.
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@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
- Looks time-consuming and it would be commercial experience in what area? Microsoft office support? Organizations like that do not have much of infrastructure and no Linux servers.
You might feel that way, but you'd be in control. I did this myself and built out and entire Linux infrastructure for a K12 school in New York. Desktops, servers, storage, networking, phones, you name it. I did it all. That experience wasn't just amazing as a learning experience, it was, along with my home lab, what walked me in to the most senior role on Canary Wharf in pure tech. I was the only Linux person they had ever had with the scale of cradle to grave experience that they had seen and I got put in charge of the entire Linux infrastructure for the largest bank in the world.
Was that the only thing on my resume? Heck no. Did I have Fortune 10 experience before that? Yes. Did I use Linux before that? Yes. Am I good in interviews? Yes. So I'm not claiming that a couple years of volunteer work took me from new IT guy to true senior overnight. But there is no doubt that it was one of the biggest factors that there could be.
I was a decently senior IT person before that. But my volunteer work changed my knowledge, confidence and immediately caused me to triple my earnings.
Opportunities are out there, you just have to make them.
Something like that could be done though Ltd like business charity or discount service. Expenses would reduce profit taxes then. And perhaps it is the only way in the UK because there are so many regulations to do something in schools these days.
Or just volunteer. Don't know about in the UK, but the US looks favorably upon donating your time and effort.
No, it is schools specifically. Engineers have to have security clearance to work at schools, prisons, police, army... objects. There are so many regulations in the EU. Was one of the reasons for Brexit success.
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Ah, makes sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
- I've worked in UNIX for 23 years and Linux for 20 years specifically and in the Linux training and hiring space and I've never heard of the LFCSA. These little "web site certs" aren't what people mean by industry certs. Nothing wrong with them, but they are no substitute for the "real thing." Seeing the LFCSA on your resume would likely do nothing as people looking for specific certs would never see it and most people in the field wouldn't know what it is or represents if they happen to see it.
Please don't take it personally, the majority of Linux professionals honestly should say the same. It is very descriptive about our society. Linux Foundation has established 17 years ago. Billions of people use Linux, therefore even industry professionals do not bother to show some respect and support for the kernel developers.
RHEL certification is RHEL specific. I saw many jobs were Debian or Ubuntu specified. LFCSA and RHCSA syllabus are nearly the same and both performance-based. RHCSA exam cost €460 (Price excludes VAT) and closest exam site is in Dublin. LFCSA $300 and includes one free retake attempt. Taken at home, proctored using a webcam.
For me and perhaps everyone quickest way to get into IT is still Microsoft Certification, but I do not believe in Microsoft and it would be before the last certification I take. The last Apple. RHEL is proprietary product based on open source. I do not believe in RHEL, even more, it would be even after Microsoft and Apple. May be one day if Red Hat gets Platinum or at least Gold Linux Foundation Member I will change my mind.- You've got a mix of things that look to be showing a range of really light knowledge, but nothing deep. Network+ is networking for non-networking pros, Juniper and Cisco are very specific classes for network pros. CCNA is an intern cert for networking - it's too light to get you a job in Cisco work, but too specific to be useful to anyone not on Cisco. The CCNA really exists only as a stepping stone to the CCNP and the CCNP is only for people looking to work as a Cisco Network Administrator in the enterprise space. So while that's a great career, it doesn't match your other classes at all.
I was thinking the same, but I passed Network+ not so long time ago. Knowledge is still fresh and I just have to renew and add Cisco specific. I'm really enjoying learning Cisco because I have a rack with awesome toys:
If I jump back into Linux now I would have to sell back all this stuff, because later would be outdated for the exam.
CCNA is a prerequisite for CCNP on every Juniper ad I saw was stated that cross training for Cisco engineers provided.My big thing here is - focus. You've got five topics in your curriculum: Linux Admin, Cloud Engineer, Network Admin, Database something and DevOps (this is part of Linux Admin, but a different aspect of it.) But all of these are at the "survey" level. Great for someone building a foundation before looking into the specifics that they want to focus on; but at this point that focus seems to be lacking.
I'm struggling to focus choices:
- I'm taking CCNA then perhaps LFCSA before diving into 6+ months CCNP certification.
- If I can make a gap between CCNA and CCNP then I can make between Net+ and CCNA. My Linux Academy account is paid a year up front. For me, LFCSA would be cheapest and quickest way to get some another certificate. I know everything just need some practice to be quick enough on the exam. I shall definitely pass in another 2 attempts.
- I think bench work would be perfect for me. Please don't say I need CompTIA A+ for this. I feel like it is going backwards. Perhaps Server+ then?
- Open University: Certificate of Higher Education in Computing and IT Just learned that they would count some credits from Civil Engineering diploma. Unfortunately, it is too late for credit transfer this course. Registration closes 14 September, there still time for those who don't need a transfer. Next course starts in February. But it's very dear. £1,916 would cover CCNA CCNP LFCS and MCSA Linux on Azure (LFCS required for this) altogether including some extra for training material. Interesting what would provide better results?
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@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
RHEL certification is RHEL specific. I saw many jobs were Debian or Ubuntu specified.
Yes, but that was my point. Regardless of what Linux tech you are expected to use, it is the RHEL exams that are respected in the industry. They are the only ones useful to your career regardless of the material on the other exams or the OS choice that you are hired for. People hiring for Ubuntu still look only for RH exams.
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@john11smith said in Getting Started in IT SAMIT Video:
- I think bench work would be perfect for me. Please don't say I need CompTIA A+ for this. I feel like it is going backwards. Perhaps Server+ then?
Sadly, A+ is the only broadly known cert in the bench world. The Server+ is a better cert, but only applies to a certain type of bench work and is only known by 1% of employers.
