Solved Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Obsolesce said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Obsolesce said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Hypothetically, what happens if he convinced the customer to upgrade to Windows 10 all around and the issue persists? I don't see any references to where Windows 10 fixed the specific problem that he's having...
THen he'd have wasted minimal time and be no worse than where he is today... able to install Windows 7 or recommend the upgrade as needed. The point being it is a non-committal, really fast test, and would get him to a point that there is modern support for the OS.
Upgrading is zero wasted time because that needs done regardless of present issues, and should have already been done years ago.
but it goes against the policy - upgrades only happen if happening at the site level.
Whatever the policy, upgrading (site level, whatever conditions you want to insert) is not a waste of time because it needs to be done regardless of present issues, and should have already been done years ago.
Well sure, of course it should have been - but hell, I was someplace last week, and their POS was still on XP.
we have a lot of people who's POS are still on xp except the server
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Obsolesce said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Obsolesce said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@bnrstnr said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Hypothetically, what happens if he convinced the customer to upgrade to Windows 10 all around and the issue persists? I don't see any references to where Windows 10 fixed the specific problem that he's having...
THen he'd have wasted minimal time and be no worse than where he is today... able to install Windows 7 or recommend the upgrade as needed. The point being it is a non-committal, really fast test, and would get him to a point that there is modern support for the OS.
Upgrading is zero wasted time because that needs done regardless of present issues, and should have already been done years ago.
but it goes against the policy - upgrades only happen if happening at the site level.
Whatever the policy, upgrading (site level, whatever conditions you want to insert) is not a waste of time because it needs to be done regardless of present issues, and should have already been done years ago.
Well sure, of course it should have been - but hell, I was someplace last week, and their POS was still on XP.
Yeah I;m not sure how that makes the point? as @Obsolesce said :thumbs_up: because that site and this one aren't the same, right? I know @WrCombs said he's seen / heard / dealt with clients on XP.
But what's the relevance to fixing this issue?
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender it makes sense, this way everything is uniform, but that has yet to have been declared in any of these posts as far as I can recall.
The trouble is that the client is having an issue, one that could be remedied by upgrading (possibly). And @WrCombs and his boss has no way to really get the client to pay for that upgrade, without having tested it out.
So the issue is a shit-sandwich that everyone has to take a large bite out of.
I'm not sure how the billing works for these clients - do they pay @WrCombs company a monthly fee to 'support them' or do they pay by the hour for break fix?
if it's monthly - damn - just upgrade the site already and move on.
if it's hourly - well the client gets to decide - PERIOD. Now the question is - what does the client get to decide between? If @WrCombs company doesn't support mixed environments, then the client could see a HUGE bill for a single system issue (i.e. upgrading the whole site), or if they do support mixed environments, then just upgrade that one machine.
Option three - replace the computer.They pay a monthly Fee for support - however as my boss has said to me and i cant challenge it - We dont upgrade OS versions. We will have to sell new hardware/software. for everyone - IDK why we do it that way, but what my boss says goes..
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@WrCombs said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
We will have to sell new hardware/software. for everyone - IDK why we do it that way, but what my boss says goes..
The answer is in his statement.
We will have to sell new hardware/software.
It's all sales driven, you "support" only what is installed, and literally nothing else. If there is ever a change in the PoS a client has you no longer support it as the client has circumvented your support chain.
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There is literally zero other way to look at this besides your boss/employer as offering no support at all. Support ends at "you need to purchase the latest and greatest" (because we make way more money selling you the thing all over again).
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@WrCombs said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender it makes sense, this way everything is uniform, but that has yet to have been declared in any of these posts as far as I can recall.
The trouble is that the client is having an issue, one that could be remedied by upgrading (possibly). And @WrCombs and his boss has no way to really get the client to pay for that upgrade, without having tested it out.
So the issue is a shit-sandwich that everyone has to take a large bite out of.
I'm not sure how the billing works for these clients - do they pay @WrCombs company a monthly fee to 'support them' or do they pay by the hour for break fix?
if it's monthly - damn - just upgrade the site already and move on.
if it's hourly - well the client gets to decide - PERIOD. Now the question is - what does the client get to decide between? If @WrCombs company doesn't support mixed environments, then the client could see a HUGE bill for a single system issue (i.e. upgrading the whole site), or if they do support mixed environments, then just upgrade that one machine.
Option three - replace the computer.They pay a monthly Fee for support - however as my boss has said to me and i cant challenge it - We dont upgrade OS versions. We will have to sell new hardware/software. for everyone - IDK why we do it that way, but what my boss says goes..
Does IT at your own company (aka, you) upgrade OS's on internal hardware?
Just wondering if purchasing new hardware is a cultural issue at your company.
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If your employer offered support, it would include things such as troubleshooting software and OS issues. But because you are explicitly told to not upgrade a client unless they've purchased new servers software and hardware are you not actually offering support.
Support in most circles would fall into the "Support and Service" categories of things sold.
I support and sell printers - brands Canon, Xerox, Epson etc.
But what it seems like is that you Sell a product, and offer the facade of support within the ecosystem that was sold.
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@WrCombs said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender it makes sense, this way everything is uniform, but that has yet to have been declared in any of these posts as far as I can recall.
The trouble is that the client is having an issue, one that could be remedied by upgrading (possibly). And @WrCombs and his boss has no way to really get the client to pay for that upgrade, without having tested it out.
So the issue is a shit-sandwich that everyone has to take a large bite out of.
I'm not sure how the billing works for these clients - do they pay @WrCombs company a monthly fee to 'support them' or do they pay by the hour for break fix?
if it's monthly - damn - just upgrade the site already and move on.
if it's hourly - well the client gets to decide - PERIOD. Now the question is - what does the client get to decide between? If @WrCombs company doesn't support mixed environments, then the client could see a HUGE bill for a single system issue (i.e. upgrading the whole site), or if they do support mixed environments, then just upgrade that one machine.
Option three - replace the computer.They pay a monthly Fee for support - however as my boss has said to me and i cant challenge it - We dont upgrade OS versions. We will have to sell new hardware/software. for everyone - IDK why we do it that way, but what my boss says goes..
It makes big time money. It's an obvious business choice.
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@WrCombs said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender it makes sense, this way everything is uniform, but that has yet to have been declared in any of these posts as far as I can recall.
The trouble is that the client is having an issue, one that could be remedied by upgrading (possibly). And @WrCombs and his boss has no way to really get the client to pay for that upgrade, without having tested it out.
So the issue is a shit-sandwich that everyone has to take a large bite out of.
I'm not sure how the billing works for these clients - do they pay @WrCombs company a monthly fee to 'support them' or do they pay by the hour for break fix?
if it's monthly - damn - just upgrade the site already and move on.
if it's hourly - well the client gets to decide - PERIOD. Now the question is - what does the client get to decide between? If @WrCombs company doesn't support mixed environments, then the client could see a HUGE bill for a single system issue (i.e. upgrading the whole site), or if they do support mixed environments, then just upgrade that one machine.
Option three - replace the computer.They pay a monthly Fee for support - however as my boss has said to me and i cant challenge it - We dont upgrade OS versions. We will have to sell new hardware/software. for everyone - IDK why we do it that way, but what my boss says goes..
Then that is the policy and the only solution to the problem is to sell them a new system. The client either accepts that or they fire your company and finds a new vendor to support what they have that will think "outside the box" and upgrade that failing machine.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@WrCombs said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender it makes sense, this way everything is uniform, but that has yet to have been declared in any of these posts as far as I can recall.
The trouble is that the client is having an issue, one that could be remedied by upgrading (possibly). And @WrCombs and his boss has no way to really get the client to pay for that upgrade, without having tested it out.
So the issue is a shit-sandwich that everyone has to take a large bite out of.
I'm not sure how the billing works for these clients - do they pay @WrCombs company a monthly fee to 'support them' or do they pay by the hour for break fix?
if it's monthly - damn - just upgrade the site already and move on.
if it's hourly - well the client gets to decide - PERIOD. Now the question is - what does the client get to decide between? If @WrCombs company doesn't support mixed environments, then the client could see a HUGE bill for a single system issue (i.e. upgrading the whole site), or if they do support mixed environments, then just upgrade that one machine.
Option three - replace the computer.They pay a monthly Fee for support - however as my boss has said to me and i cant challenge it - We dont upgrade OS versions. We will have to sell new hardware/software. for everyone - IDK why we do it that way, but what my boss says goes..
Then that is the policy and the only solution to the problem is to sell them a new system. The client either accepts that or they fire your company and finds a new vendor to support what they have that will think "outside the box" and upgrade that failing machine.
Exactly. It's a ridiculous situation, but not as ridiculous as the customer keeping the vendor around.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@WrCombs said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender it makes sense, this way everything is uniform, but that has yet to have been declared in any of these posts as far as I can recall.
The trouble is that the client is having an issue, one that could be remedied by upgrading (possibly). And @WrCombs and his boss has no way to really get the client to pay for that upgrade, without having tested it out.
So the issue is a shit-sandwich that everyone has to take a large bite out of.
I'm not sure how the billing works for these clients - do they pay @WrCombs company a monthly fee to 'support them' or do they pay by the hour for break fix?
if it's monthly - damn - just upgrade the site already and move on.
if it's hourly - well the client gets to decide - PERIOD. Now the question is - what does the client get to decide between? If @WrCombs company doesn't support mixed environments, then the client could see a HUGE bill for a single system issue (i.e. upgrading the whole site), or if they do support mixed environments, then just upgrade that one machine.
Option three - replace the computer.They pay a monthly Fee for support - however as my boss has said to me and i cant challenge it - We dont upgrade OS versions. We will have to sell new hardware/software. for everyone - IDK why we do it that way, but what my boss says goes..
It makes big time money. It's an obvious business choice.
Absolutely, yeah we could try and fix that issue, but instead we really would rather charge you upwards of 6 figures for a new system, migration time, training and hope you forget all about the issues you had because we don't actually support the systems we sell. (we actually just install them and hope they last a few years until such a time that you think you've gotten what you paid for)
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
If your employer offered support, it would include things such as troubleshooting software and OS issues. But because you are explicitly told to not upgrade a client unless they've purchased new servers software and hardware are you not actually offering support.
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment. What they don't offer is changing environments to solve issues. If that's required, then you have to buy new hardware. Shitty place to be, but it's the place his company decided to be.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
If your employer offered support, it would include things such as troubleshooting software and OS issues. But because you are explicitly told to not upgrade a client unless they've purchased new servers software and hardware are you not actually offering support.
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment. What they don't offer is changing environments to solve issues. If that's required, then you have to buy new hardware. Shitty place to be, but it's the place his company decided to be.
That's the same exact thing as not offering support. If upgrading the site (as a whole) or even just 1 kiosk fixes the issue, than support should offer that.
Instead it's a stance of, nope you only paid me once about X years ago, so I'm going to charge you again in full for a solution to your problem.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
I support and sell printers - brands Canon, Xerox, Epson etc.
But what it seems like is that you Sell a product, and offer the facade of support within the ecosystem that was sold.
You can't compare something like a printer to a workstation/PC.... it's not like you can get Xerox firmware and put it on a Canon printer... it's also not like you can (at least not likely) take the firmware for the next gen printer and put it on your old gen printer... apple and oranges.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment.
But that's a total Dashrender thing to say. They aren't offering standard IT support, they are intentionally withholding it. They have no fix whatsoever that they will do, period. They have a free fix available to try and refuse choosing, instead, to do nothing (or things that they have shown in the past to not work.)
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
What they don't offer is changing environments to solve issues.
Calling standard updates "changing the environment" is a cop out. Yes, it's a change, all support is. So really you just said that they don't offer support.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
If that's required, then you have to buy new hardwar
Not if they offered support for what is there. Any of us could attempt that support without new hardware.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
If your employer offered support, it would include things such as troubleshooting software and OS issues. But because you are explicitly told to not upgrade a client unless they've purchased new servers software and hardware are you not actually offering support.
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment. What they don't offer is changing environments to solve issues. If that's required, then you have to buy new hardware. Shitty place to be, but it's the place his company decided to be.
That's the same exact thing as not offering support. If upgrading the site (as a whole) or even just 1 kiosk fixes the issue, than support should offer that.
Instead it's a stance of, nope you only paid me once about X years ago, so I'm going to charge you again in full for a solution to your problem.
Not at all - they have a very narrow scope for support - to stay within the OS that the device came with. If they can't solve it within that scope, they consider it unsolvable.
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Not at all - they have a very narrow scope for support - to stay within the OS that the device came with. If they can't solve it within that scope, they consider it unsolvabl
"Consider it unsolvable" is just saying "not offering support." If you don't offer standard IT support and call it something else, that doesn't change things.
And Windows 10 is the same OS. No one is asking them to change to a different OS. No one is asking money to be spent. Just upgrading the existing OS along the path it should have been upgrading along since day one.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
This is a total scott type of thing to say, and is total crap! of course they offer support, support of the existing environment.
But that's a total Dashrender thing to say. They aren't offering standard IT support, they are intentionally withholding it. They have no fix whatsoever that they will do, period. They have a free fix available to try and refuse choosing, instead, to do nothing (or things that they have shown in the past to not work.)
Hell yeah they're intentionally withholding typical IT Support, but hey, they can do that if they want, and clearly, currently - they do.
Is it right - nope, at least not to us.
