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@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Nope, I'm all for advancing technology and I hope sometime in the near future we can have efficient electric cars. Today is not that day, and by arguing for current electric vehicles like they are actually more efficient and better for the environment than gassers is flat-out garbage.
They are actually more efficient and pollute less, even given coal fired electricity. Batteries can be recycled. The whole car can be recycled, same with petroleum fired ones.
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@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Plus they are WAY quicker than a gas car!
OMG, a Tesla when the pedal gets pushed all the way down is like going over the big hill on a rollercoaster. Literally experienced that exact sensation riding in one in California in 2013 when I visited Pertino with @scottalanmiller and @Nick42
<sound of engine quietly revving>
<sound of seriously underpowered horn>Beep beep!I actually drove a Prius for a test drive. It was a nice ride, and I could definitely see us owning one. It just wasn't the right car for us at the time.
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@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Plus they are WAY quicker than a gas car!
OMG, a Tesla when the pedal gets pushed all the way down is like going over the big hill on a rollercoaster. Literally experienced that exact sensation riding in one in California in 2013 when I visited Pertino with @scottalanmiller and @Nick42
Nothing a gas powered car can't do, but not likely as efficiently as an electric.
Nope. No gas powered car in the world can match 100% torque and stay in the band throughout the run. Nothing.
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@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Plus they are WAY quicker than a gas car!
OMG, a Tesla when the pedal gets pushed all the way down is like going over the big hill on a rollercoaster. Literally experienced that exact sensation riding in one in California in 2013 when I visited Pertino with @scottalanmiller and @Nick42
Nothing a gas powered car can't do, but not likely as efficiently as an electric.
Nope. No gas powered car in the world can match 100% torque and stay in the band throughout the run. Nothing.
No electric car can replace the rumble and snarl of a supercharged V8. They may be faster but they are certainly less fun.
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@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Plus they are WAY quicker than a gas car!
OMG, a Tesla when the pedal gets pushed all the way down is like going over the big hill on a rollercoaster. Literally experienced that exact sensation riding in one in California in 2013 when I visited Pertino with @scottalanmiller and @Nick42
Nothing a gas powered car can't do, but not likely as efficiently as an electric.
Nope. No gas powered car in the world can match 100% torque and stay in the band throughout the run. Nothing.
No electric car can replace the rumble and snarl of a supercharged V8. They may be faster but they are certainly less fun.
Just the fact that there is a debate about speed is huge. Awhile ago electric couldn't hold a candle to gas.
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@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Nope, I'm all for advancing technology and I hope sometime in the near future we can have efficient electric cars. Today is not that day, and by arguing for current electric vehicles like they are actually more efficient and better for the environment than gassers is flat-out garbage.
They are actually more efficient and pollute less, even given coal fired electricity. Batteries can be recycled. The whole car can be recycled, same with petroleum fired ones.
I don't buy that for a second, but there's no point in arguing it.
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@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Does anyone realize that every energy conversion suffers loss? It's so ridiculously laughable to me every time people fire up the electric vs. gas vehicle debate. It generally requires fossil fuels to generate electricity (on a large scale), and then you get another potential drop when converting from AC to battery DC potential electricity. There is no magical "save the planet" clause that kicks in and gives you a conversion bonus for being "green", and when you're all done wasting energy to look like you've done the planet some great service, you throw your massive used-up lead-acid batteries in a landfill. Sure, technology keeps getting better, and there may come a point when we can produce all of our electricity w/o the use of fossil fuels, but until that actually happens in the real world, physics renders the argument invalid. I'll accept that using solar panels to generate the power to charge your car is a step in the right direction, but now you've added another layer of toxic batteries to the chain. And my 3 cars average about 350-400 miles per tank of gas, at roughly 25-30 mpg.
For me it's less about being green, and more about money in my wallet. When gas gets even close to $3/gallon, my Prius definitely pays for itself when considering purchasing batteries vs lower mpg.
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@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Plus they are WAY quicker than a gas car!
OMG, a Tesla when the pedal gets pushed all the way down is like going over the big hill on a rollercoaster. Literally experienced that exact sensation riding in one in California in 2013 when I visited Pertino with @scottalanmiller and @Nick42
Nothing a gas powered car can't do, but not likely as efficiently as an electric.
Nope. No gas powered car in the world can match 100% torque and stay in the band throughout the run. Nothing.
No electric car can replace the rumble and snarl of a supercharged V8. They may be faster but they are certainly less fun.
Less fun? Drive one, then come back to me. No snarl, but there is nothing like the acceleration with near silence. It's like being a ninja.
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@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Nope, I'm all for advancing technology and I hope sometime in the near future we can have efficient electric cars. Today is not that day, and by arguing for current electric vehicles like they are actually more efficient and better for the environment than gassers is flat-out garbage.
They are actually more efficient and pollute less, even given coal fired electricity. Batteries can be recycled. The whole car can be recycled, same with petroleum fired ones.
I don't buy that for a second, but there's no point in arguing it.
Don't take my word for it, that's F(@*#! cancerous. GO DO THE RESEARCH.
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@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
Does anyone realize that every energy conversion suffers loss? It's so ridiculously laughable to me every time people fire up the electric vs. gas vehicle debate. It generally requires fossil fuels to generate electricity (on a large scale), and then you get another potential drop when converting from AC to battery DC potential electricity. There is no magical "save the planet" clause that kicks in and gives you a conversion bonus for being "green", and when you're all done wasting energy to look like you've done the planet some great service, you throw your massive used-up lead-acid batteries in a landfill. Sure, technology keeps getting better, and there may come a point when we can produce all of our electricity w/o the use of fossil fuels, but until that actually happens in the real world, physics renders the argument invalid. I'll accept that using solar panels to generate the power to charge your car is a step in the right direction, but now you've added another layer of toxic batteries to the chain. And my 3 cars average about 350-400 miles per tank of gas, at roughly 25-30 mpg.
You went and got me started, here we go.
We should be 100% nuclear power generation right now. Most of the current reactors in the US are so old it's not even funny. Yet we keep operating the old, known to be dangerous, designs a la Fukushima. We have abundant fuel, safe reactors that can not melt down, and can recycle around 99% of the fuel. Yet we do NONE of this... excuse me, I need to go collect the duct tape because my head just exploded.
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@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Plus they are WAY quicker than a gas car!
OMG, a Tesla when the pedal gets pushed all the way down is like going over the big hill on a rollercoaster. Literally experienced that exact sensation riding in one in California in 2013 when I visited Pertino with @scottalanmiller and @Nick42
Nothing a gas powered car can't do, but not likely as efficiently as an electric.
Nope. No gas powered car in the world can match 100% torque and stay in the band throughout the run. Nothing.
No electric car can replace the rumble and snarl of a supercharged V8. They may be faster but they are certainly less fun.
Less fun? Drive one, then come back to me. No snarl, but there is nothing like the acceleration with near silence. It's like being a ninja.
I love the Tesla but I hear that they are considering adding the engine sound to it because people are getting into accidents due to the engine being silent
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@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Nope, I'm all for advancing technology and I hope sometime in the near future we can have efficient electric cars. Today is not that day, and by arguing for current electric vehicles like they are actually more efficient and better for the environment than gassers is flat-out garbage.
They are actually more efficient and pollute less, even given coal fired electricity. Batteries can be recycled. The whole car can be recycled, same with petroleum fired ones.
I don't buy that for a second, but there's no point in arguing it.
Don't take my word for it, that's F(@*#! cancerous. GO DO THE RESEARCH.
You can find studies that swear to either side of the debate. I have.
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@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Nope, I'm all for advancing technology and I hope sometime in the near future we can have efficient electric cars. Today is not that day, and by arguing for current electric vehicles like they are actually more efficient and better for the environment than gassers is flat-out garbage.
They are actually more efficient and pollute less, even given coal fired electricity. Batteries can be recycled. The whole car can be recycled, same with petroleum fired ones.
I don't buy that for a second, but there's no point in arguing it.
Don't take my word for it, that's F(@*#! cancerous. GO DO THE RESEARCH.
You can find studies that swear to either side of the debate. I have.
This is true.
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@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Nope, I'm all for advancing technology and I hope sometime in the near future we can have efficient electric cars. Today is not that day, and by arguing for current electric vehicles like they are actually more efficient and better for the environment than gassers is flat-out garbage.
They are actually more efficient and pollute less, even given coal fired electricity. Batteries can be recycled. The whole car can be recycled, same with petroleum fired ones.
I don't buy that for a second, but there's no point in arguing it.
Don't take my word for it, that's F(@*#! cancerous. GO DO THE RESEARCH.
You can find studies that swear to either side of the debate. I have.
Again, you are depending on other people to think for you, my goodness.
Go look up the cost of 1MW of power generation / pollution stats, vs gasoline engines. Figure out the losses.
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@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Plus they are WAY quicker than a gas car!
OMG, a Tesla when the pedal gets pushed all the way down is like going over the big hill on a rollercoaster. Literally experienced that exact sensation riding in one in California in 2013 when I visited Pertino with @scottalanmiller and @Nick42
Nothing a gas powered car can't do, but not likely as efficiently as an electric.
Nope. No gas powered car in the world can match 100% torque and stay in the band throughout the run. Nothing.
No electric car can replace the rumble and snarl of a supercharged V8. They may be faster but they are certainly less fun.
Less fun? Drive one, then come back to me. No snarl, but there is nothing like the acceleration with near silence. It's like being a ninja.
I love the Tesla but I hear that they are considering adding the engine sound to it because people are getting into accidents due to the engine being silent
I remember reading about that very thing years ago worrying about pedestrians, but it doesn't hold water due to the fact of tires rolling in pavement has a sound.
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@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Art has a huge point though - we still get the power for our electric cars from coal and oil burning power plants. There are fewer and fewer nuclear power plants today, so unless we already have that new method of power production, we are still burning the fossil fuels.
So to Art's point - are we better off burning the fuels in the cars to generate power to move our vehicles or are we better of burning the fuel, converting it to electricity (loss) - but might be equal loss to burning in car), then having to transport it - generally through some type of conversion (loss), then storage (again loss).
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@Dashrender Right - so we have a problem with how we generate electricity. Not electric cars.
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@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
First you have to prove to me that humans are the cause of climate change, and define what is a normal climate. After all, the planet has spent more time in ice ages than our current mild climate. Listening to peoples arguments, they all make me think they'd rather freeze to death.
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@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@Dashrender Right - so we have a problem with how we generate electricity. Not electric cars.
That was my entire point. Today's electric cars have not yet overcome the issue. They will likely be the better option in the future, but they are not today.
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@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@MattSpeller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:
@art_of_shred I think the point is completely lost in there. Electric vehicles are the future and they will be much better for the environment. While today's technology may not be perfect that is how we humans progress - one step at a time. It sounds like you are arguing that we shouldn't bother and just continue our destructive ways. That is not progressing anything.
Art has a huge point though - we still get the power for our electric cars from coal and oil burning power plants. There are fewer and fewer nuclear power plants today, so unless we already have that new method of power production, we are still burning the fossil fuels.
So to Art's point - are we better off burning the fuels in the cars to generate power to move our vehicles or are we better of burning the fuel, converting it to electricity (loss) - but might be equal loss to burning in car), then having to transport it - generally through some type of conversion (loss), then storage (again loss).
There's loss with gas powered too. Loss of unburnt fuel, drive train loss, idling.
