Non-IT News Thread
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@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
Is it my job to investigate a possible crime in progress or the police, @scottalanmiller (rhetorical question) it's the polices.
Currently the polices'. If the new law comes through, that CLEARLY is switched. And you are completely responsible, under how they have described it, to be completely sure that a crime has been witnessed and can be proven BEFORE the police are legally allowed to be called.
That's what this law is, a change in who is held responsible for proving a crime.
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@obsolesce said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@obsolesce said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@obsolesce Let's take the Marley sibling that had the police called on her because she was "taking things from the marley residence" and had the police called on her.
The neighbor had no idea who this person was, what she was doing there or why she was taking things from the residence. Called the police, and then had the Marley sibling label her a racist because she was actually allowed to be there.
Again, in that case, for all the caller knows, that person IS doing something illegal.
The law is referring to purposefully calling police knowing there is not crime being done, and no evidence of crime being done.
Right, which in his example, there was no crime and no evidence of a crime. Nothing criminal at all. That's the exact point. Climbing through a window is in no way a crime.
Yes it is. That's breaking and entering, which is a crime.
Nope, entering a window is NOT breaking and entering. And even breaking and entering into your own house is not a crime. There is NO crime here, none.
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@scottalanmiller but as a person who's responsibility in this Country isn't to investigate possible and actual crimes, the only possible responsibility would be to call the police to report what is believe to be a crime.
Punishment for reporting activity like in my examples is insanity. I get cases like the water-bottle crazy bitch case. 100%
But this law doesn't define the difference. Just calling the police, at all, for suspicious activity against a person of color, immediately makes it a hate crime if there was no actual crime.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@obsolesce said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@obsolesce said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@obsolesce Let's take the Marley sibling that had the police called on her because she was "taking things from the marley residence" and had the police called on her.
The neighbor had no idea who this person was, what she was doing there or why she was taking things from the residence. Called the police, and then had the Marley sibling label her a racist because she was actually allowed to be there.
Again, in that case, for all the caller knows, that person IS doing something illegal.
The law is referring to purposefully calling police knowing there is not crime being done, and no evidence of crime being done.
Right, which in his example, there was no crime and no evidence of a crime. Nothing criminal at all. That's the exact point. Climbing through a window is in no way a crime.
Yes it is. That's breaking and entering, which is a crime.
Nope, entering a window is NOT breaking and entering. And even breaking and entering into your own house is not a crime. There is NO crime here, none.
Caller did not know it was the person's house. Definitely a crime.
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Entering an open door holding a gift basket is also not a crime, unless you are trespassing. Breaking and entering cannot be determined without an investigation unless it is YOU against whom the crime is committed. And even then, you still have the responsibility to prove it.
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@obsolesce said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@obsolesce said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@obsolesce said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@obsolesce Let's take the Marley sibling that had the police called on her because she was "taking things from the marley residence" and had the police called on her.
The neighbor had no idea who this person was, what she was doing there or why she was taking things from the residence. Called the police, and then had the Marley sibling label her a racist because she was actually allowed to be there.
Again, in that case, for all the caller knows, that person IS doing something illegal.
The law is referring to purposefully calling police knowing there is not crime being done, and no evidence of crime being done.
Right, which in his example, there was no crime and no evidence of a crime. Nothing criminal at all. That's the exact point. Climbing through a window is in no way a crime.
Yes it is. That's breaking and entering, which is a crime.
Nope, entering a window is NOT breaking and entering. And even breaking and entering into your own house is not a crime. There is NO crime here, none.
Caller did not know it was the person's house. Definitely a crime.
No crime. None. What the caller knows or does not know has NOT bearing on something being a crime.
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@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller but as a person who's responsibility in this Country isn't to investigate possible and actual crimes, the only possible responsibility would be to call the police to report what is believe to be a crime.
Did you not read the article? The WHOLE point is to shift the responsibility. That's what this law would do. It CHANGES who is responsible. Your personal opinion of how it SHOULD be is not relevant. The current law puts the onus on the police, the new one puts it on the reporter. Clear as day.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
Entering an open door holding a gift basket is also not a crime, unless you are trespassing. Breaking and entering cannot be determined without an investigation unless it is YOU against whom the crime is committed. And even then, you still have the responsibility to prove it.
But it is never the citizens responsibility to investigate. Ever. Period.
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@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
Punishment for reporting activity like in my examples is insanity. I get cases like the water-bottle crazy bitch case. 100%
I think expecting the law to be sane, rational, or for the good of the people causes problems here. You can't think of laws that way.
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@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
Entering an open door holding a gift basket is also not a crime, unless you are trespassing. Breaking and entering cannot be determined without an investigation unless it is YOU against whom the crime is committed. And even then, you still have the responsibility to prove it.
But it is never the citizens responsibility to investigate. Ever. Period.
Except it is, under the proposed law, period. So you are simply wrong.
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Why would anybody ever call american police for help?
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
Why would anybody ever call american police for help?
Well, you can't call the Mexican police for help.
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
Why would anybody ever call american police for help?
To get a person of color removed from the premises... according to media.
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@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
Why would anybody ever call american police for help?
Right, I'd just shoot the person I suspect first and investigate, once they're dead or proven to be allowed to be there would I call for an ambulance or hearse.
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@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
But it is never the citizens responsibility to investigate. Ever. Period.
Basically you are stating that this new law can't exist due to same property of nature. But it can. All it has to do is be passed and your statement is provably false. There is no basis for saying that a citizen is never responsible for something, when we are discussing making a law to do exactly that.
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@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@momurda said in Non-IT News Thread:
Why would anybody ever call american police for help?
Right, I'd just shoot the person I suspect first and investigate, once they're dead or proven to be allowed to be there would I call for an ambulance or hearse.
Texas is the place for you.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
But it is never the citizens responsibility to investigate. Ever. Period.
Basically you are stating that this new law can't exist due to same property of nature. But it can. All it has to do is be passed and your statement is provably false. There is no basis for saying that a citizen is never responsible for something, when we are discussing making a law to do exactly that.
I'm not stating hold a person accountable, I'm stating this flaw is fundamentally flawed, as it specifically labels people of non-color as racists for reporting what they believe to be a crime.
I wouldn't walk into the OJ Simpson house and start tromping through blood and then say "yup something has gone down here, dead body, better make sure she's not playing dead - before i call the police"
I'd then be charged with tampering with evidence.
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@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
But it is never the citizens responsibility to investigate. Ever. Period.
Basically you are stating that this new law can't exist due to same property of nature. But it can. All it has to do is be passed and your statement is provably false. There is no basis for saying that a citizen is never responsible for something, when we are discussing making a law to do exactly that.
I'm not stating hold a person accountable, I'm stating this flaw is fundamentally flawed, as it specifically labels people of non-color as racists for reporting what they believe to be a crime.
Oh it is flawed, no doubt. As is the current one that doesn't punish what are clearly hate crimes. But creating more hate and damage to stop other hate is not an answer, of course. Next we will be pushing for using this law to punish white people a hate crime as well.
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@dustinb3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
I wouldn't walk into the OJ Simpson house and start tromping through blood and then say "yup something has gone down here, dead body, better make sure she's not playing dead - before i call the police"
I'd then be charged with tampering with evidence.
I think you are missing the obvious middle ground. As a white person, your responsibility is to NOT CALL. That's the purpose of the law. IF you WANT to report something you think is a crime, then it is your responsibility to prove it. You are free to not report.
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@scottalanmiller That's my point, this law is a horrible attempt to stop something that should and is already punishable with the existing laws.
Like water bottle betsy or whatever her name is. Called the cops on a black girl who was selling water from her own home.
That lady needs to be charged with false reporting, etc and fined like any other case.
There isn't a need for an additional law. Use the ones that are in place and punish DA and or courts who throw out such cases.
